Dr. Dave Jones: The Three Vision Problems That Keep Successful Men Stuck in Average Lives

Dr. Dave Jones: [00:00:00] There’s three problems with vision. One, you don’t have it, two, you don’t believe it, and three, you’re not communicating it. So we can’t chase perfection, but we can chase excellence, we can chase persistence. That world of of that system has left almost 80% of the country disengaged at work, and they don’t trust management.

But when you find something that you love to do. And you’re executing it and you’re, you know, getting better and better at it all the time. You feel fulfilled and that fulfillment is what you gravitate to, not the skill development. He said, I don’t make mistakes. I looked at ’em, I, I look at ’em as learning opportunities.

He said, I’ve never made a mistake in my life. They’re all learning opportunities. And I thought that was, that’s awesome mindset, right?

Brent Dowlen: Dr. Dave, you’ve worked with everyone from pro athletes to business leaders. What’s the moment when someone realizes that their success is actually being sabotaged by unclear unaligned core values? [00:01:00]

Dr. Dave Jones: Wow. What an, what an awesome question. Um, a lot of times it’s a symptom. It’s, it’s, we look at the cause and the symptoms, so we look at, I don’t feel productive in my life.

I don’t feel happy. My bank accounts, my, you know, the people around me are confused. These are some warning signs that, you know, we, we are not established on who we are. I, I do, um, I’m, I’m unabashedly. Um, Christian, you know, I’m a, I, I do believe that having the Bible as a, as a guard rail in your life and establishing vision, mission, core values allows you to put boundaries, uh, around you and borders.

And, um, and so telling somebody, no, I can’t do that. I, I don’t look at that as conflict. I look that as, as clarity and direction in where you’re going with your life.

Brent Dowlen: Gentlemen, one of the most important things you can do for your [00:02:00] relationships, whether that’s with your spouse or with your kids or your personal development, is to get a good night’s sleep.

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Purpose-filled intentional lives. Welcome to the Driven 2 Thrive broadcast where men learn to lead themselves, their families, and their world with purpose, growth, and lasting impact. I’m your host, Brent Dowlen, and let’s get straight into it. ’cause today’s guest is a rare triple threat pro athlete Air Force veteran performance coach with a doctorate in sport psychology plus Dave Jones.

Dr. Dave Jones is the founder of I, M is. Good, one of the world’s largest Christian marketing agencies. The mind behind the R seven process, which we’re not even gonna touch on, but oh my [00:04:00] goodness guys, you will want to go further after you listen to this conversation. The R seven process for visionary messaging, he’s coached NHL and NFL athletes in mental toughness, and now he’s helping men like you and me lead with clarity, purpose, and faith.

His new book Vision Wins is a Faith-driven Fable Pact with lessons on mental toughness and living a life that glorifies God. Dr. Dave, welcome to the show, man. I’m really excited about our conversation today. Before I, I, I gave a brief introduction, but honestly, like that doesn’t really articulate who people are.

So just for the reference of our listeners today, what do you want them to know about who you are today as we have this conversation?

Dr. Dave Jones: Yeah, I would say that, um, I’m a sinner saved by grace. Just like everybody else there out there. I, I have had made some pretty good decisions in my life and I’ve committed to a process of peak performance.

I’m not, I don’t look at myself as great. [00:05:00] I look at myself as committing to a process. Um, I do run one of the largest Christian a advertising agencies in the world. Um, I did spend 13 years pursuing my doctorate in sport and performance psychology. Um, I, I love to read and I love peak performance and so I don’t know that I’m special in any way other than I’ve committed to a process and I’ve allowed faith to be dominant in my life.

Yes, I’ve messed up. Yes, I’ve made bad decisions, but, um, I’ve always looked at the idea that except for the grace of God, there go. I

Brent Dowlen: now, David, lemme tell you a secret, ’cause I’m actually super excited about this conversation. My very first episode, I’m approaching 400 episodes on this show. Wow. Wow. Was about the importance of establishing core values, what your core values were, have a foundation to work off of.

But I’ve never actually had this discussion with anybody on the show. I’ve never [00:06:00] actually talked to another person or a professional about core values. That was just a, a foundational start for me, and it’s very important in my life. I’m not always eloquent at articulating these concepts sometimes. Yeah.

And so I’m really excited to talk about core values as a foundation for men today, and why it’s important to have core values in your life and how that actually impacts you. So I this you, you had no idea you’re walking into this. I’m super excited about the show. Yeah. Um, and so this is kind of where I wanna talk, tackle the conversation today.

I want to start with some ideas on why core values matter, right? I, I, mm-hmm. Wanna make the argument, why, why should people actually establish some kind of core value and direct their life with that, and then dive into some common pushbacks I’ve gotten on that topic. Uh, because I’d love to hear your ideas on [00:07:00] how to answer those naysayers.

Those guys are like, well that’s, that’s all fine and Dandy Allen, but, and, uh, then we’ll move on towards how it will impact people’s lives and how to actually implement them. Is that okay with you?

Dr. Dave Jones: Yeah, it’s awesome. I’m, I’m looking forward to it. Thanks for having me, Alan, by the way.

Brent Dowlen: I am, I am super like.

You have such a broad experience, and like I said, I, I did a brief intro. Guys, I’m gonna have so much more about Dr. Dave. This man has, has worked with the full plethora of professional entrepreneurs, professional athletes. Did I read you were actually a professional athlete for a while, yourself?

Dr. Dave Jones: Yeah, I played pro

Brent Dowlen: hockey in Europe for four years.

Oh, wow. Yeah. See, I don’t even like to watch sports except hockey. I love hockey. Yeah.

Dr. Dave Jones: That’s awesome. Yeah. So, yeah. So, um, let’s, let’s, let’s get into it. So, I, I would say that when you’re talking about core values, it’s kind of like [00:08:00] eating a really delicious hamburger. Okay. So if I, if we were to, you know, if you were to come over to my house, you know, I’d say, what would you want on your hamburger?

Right? And so we’d have the lettuce, we’d have the cheese, we’d have the seasoning, you know, we’d have the bun. And so you wouldn’t say, man, this is a great bun. You would say, this is a great burger. And so, um, and maybe the bun’s part of it, core values are kind of like that. They’re part of a bigger picture.

So in order to have a core value that’s applicable in your life, we gotta have vision in order to have vision. You know, when we have vision, which is a, you know, is a short, portable, easy to understand me, memorable, inspiring statement about yourself and where you’re going. It’s, it’s kind of a written image of your future.

So we have that north star of where are we going? And then mission are the steps to get there. So some of the, some of the best vision statements that the world has ever seen. Uh, bill Gates, [00:09:00] uh, back in the seventies, his vision was at a computer in every home. And I don’t remember know if you remember that, Brett, but like at that point, a computer was literally the size of a house.

And, and Bill Gates is saying, you know, we’re gonna have a computer in every home, which was just crazy. Talk FedEx. His original vision was to be in every city every day. Like that’s crazy, right? At the time, it was just USPS to be in every city every day. We look at it now and it’s like they’re in every city two and three times a day, and so this is a clearly written image of your future, so this is where we’re going.

It’s our North star. The mission are the steps to get there. The core value are the daily decisions and the boundaries you have to set and the decisions that come along daily. You go, you know what? I, I can’t be a part of that because my vision and mission of where I’m going, it, it just doesn’t work. You know?

It’s, it’s an easy decision to make, um, on a daily, [00:10:00] you know, then if, if you have the vision and mission, mission there. Does that make sense? So the core values alone, in my opinion, can’t just stand there by themselves. They help, they provide clarity and direction, but the vision and mission are part of that.

System.

Brent Dowlen: Okay, so if I’m tracking right here, the core values give boundaries for your decision making process, right?

Dr. Dave Jones: Yeah, that’s right.

Brent Dowlen: We, we need them because it helps us guide not only our North Star me metric, but it also puts those guide rails in to help us as we’re dealing with the daily decisions, the impact.

Whether it’s our business or as a husband, as a father, those values are gonna help steer the yeses, the nos, the maybes, the choices we make.

Dr. Dave Jones: Yeah. Think of it as, uh, you know, if you wanna go, you’re from [00:11:00] Washington state, right? And you want to go to Texas, well, there’s a road that you need to get on to go to Texas, right?

So the vision is I’m going to Texas. And so what’s the shortest distance from there is the road. So your vision is like, okay, I’m going to Texas. What is the road I need to go on? And then the mission is, okay, I’ve gotta pack some things along the way. I’ve gotta stop at a hotel. Do I, do I, um, do I stay? You know, where do I stop?

Where do I go? You know, I gotta get gas in the car. You know, all these kind of daily dec, you know, daily executable decisions fall in the mission and the core values. And so it’s, it’s very similar. So if I say I wanna be the best husband the world’s ever seen, okay, that’s our road. Now what are the daily decisions?

Okay, well, can I get drunk every night? Probably not, right? Should I? Should I have some mentors that are, that are in the fatherhood, right? Like that are good fathers, right? Yeah. Well that would be a good [00:12:00] idea, right? Should I get some mentors that are more female? Well, if you wanna be the best father, probably not a female mentor, probably a male mentor that has kids, then it’s a little bit older than you.

Right? So those daily decisions, should I work late? Should I be there for my family? Should I use my family as an excuse or a reason? That’s a, that’s a good one if I wanna be the best father on the planet. And so the vision’s gotta be laid out there. And you gotta believe in the vision. There’s three problems with vision.

One, you don’t have it. Two, you don’t believe it, and three, you’re not communicating it. So we gotta, we gotta get that in first and then the core values fall along. Now we talked a little bit about what are good values, you know, like what we can start with or I like to start is what makes you mad? And we flip that to a positive.

So if, if I don’t like when people are late, I wouldn’t say, Hey, my value is, I don’t like my late. I’d say, okay, I’m on time every time. Right. I love excellence, [00:13:00] so my value is that I, I pursue excellence in everything I do. It doesn’t mean that I’m perfect. Right. And I’ve actually got a nice definition for excellence is that it’s doing the best that you can with the current resources available to you in this moment.

Right. The best resource. The best resources available to you in this moment is excellence. So if my arm hurts and I’m a golfer, um, you know what? I’m gonna do the best I can. My arm hurts, right? It’s not perfection. It’s not hitting the best shot ever, every single time. That’s impossible. There’s only one person who’s perfect, and that was Jesus, right?

So we can’t chase perfection, but we can chase excellence. We can chase persistence. We can chase committed. One of the things that as a pro athlete. I knew that I wasn’t the most talented guy out there, and I wasn’t the most skilled guy, but I knew I could be the most committed guy. And committed means I come early, I stay late, I do the rep, I do [00:14:00] the reps, I do lots of reps.

Lately I’ve been using this analogy of, um, are you a golfer, Brett, by chance? Yeah. So if I were to ask, well, we can use this analogy if I were to ask you, okay. Hey, Brett, I, I, I’m gonna give you a 56 degree wedge. Normally hit that, you know, 80 yards. And if I were to say, okay, Brett, we’re gonna go out today and I need you to hit these five balls with an 80 yards.

Okay, could you do it today? No. But if I said, Hey, it’s Tuesday, and next Tuesday we’re gonna hit these five balls. Eight within five yards. It’s gonna be 80 yards out. We’re gonna hit within five yards of each other. But every night, you and I, Brett are gonna go out. We’re gonna hit 200 balls a night, 200 balls a night for the next seven days.

Do you think you might be able to, at the end of the week, be closer to it? [00:15:00] Yeah, for sure. Right, because you put in the repetition and so, so, so the lesson here is that we don’t rise to the level of our expectation. We fall to the level of our training. So we’re talking about vision, we’re talking about mission and core values.

Yeah. I wanna be the most committed. Our visions of, you know, to be the best father in the world. Well, if we’re not putting in the core values of what we wanna become, how could we expect to do that over time? We can’t. So this is where frustration sets in, because we just haven’t done the repetition and we don’t have the boundaries set.

To say, no, I be part of that, or No, I shouldn’t do that. Well, why can’t you do that? Because I have vision over here, man.

Brent Dowlen: So, Dr. Dave, let me ask you, from your experience as a elite athlete and with working other elite athletes, what differences do you see between those who’ve defined their values as kind of a [00:16:00] guidance for their career and their choices and those who haven’t?

Dr. Dave Jones: Man, I think we’ve all been around people that have direction, right? And have clarity of where they’re going. I mean, that’s really it. It’s like that person’s going somewhere, they know where they’re going versus somebody who’s just kind of like, yeah, whatever. Just kind of, you know, go with the wind. Um, so I, I think from an athlete’s perspective, if, you know, from my experience, uh, I played with some guys that are, that are really good hockey players.

They would just commit themselves to practice all the time, like all the time. Relentless. They’re just relentless on practice. Shooting, shooting, shooting, skating, skating, skating. And where I would go, gosh, how many times can we shoot apo? Like, let’s just move on. They would just be out there practicing and practicing like they were just uber committed to the process.

And that to me is where excellence lies, is when you [00:17:00] commit to that. Being the best version of yourself, whatever that vision may be. Right. It’s inspiring to go, I wish I could do that.

Brent Dowlen: I, I think all of us, I’m not a huge sports guy. Like, I like to play sports. I love to go play. I, I don’t really like watching most of them.

Uh, I love watching hockey live. We have a minor league team in the next town over and I, I used to be a season ticket holder and I absolutely love going to the games. ’cause you know, you get that hometown. Yeah. Almost like high school esque feel of like, this is team, those are our boys. Right. Kind of thing.

And really get into it. But, uh, I think most men are familiar with the stories like Michael Jordan practicing. Mm-hmm. Just absurd amounts of time, uh, before practice, before everybody else got there, after practice. Right. I think we’ve all. I’m dating myself ’cause I’m a Gen Xer. Right. And Michael Jordan’s just the goat, but, uh, when it comes to basketball, [00:18:00] but, you know, I grew up listening to those stories like that, that is an athlete who, who’s got it dialed in and has this values and directions mission set forward.

Um, so I think all of us over a certain age, I’ll, I’ll put that clause in there.

Dr. Dave Jones: Yeah. All of us

Brent Dowlen: over the age of 30. I grew up listening to the stories like Michael Jordan just working in his insane work ethic, and that’s what he attributed everything to was I’ve just put in more shots, I’ve put in more reps than everybody else.

Dr. Dave Jones: That’s it. That’s it. And so I think we all can aspire to do that. Whatever we’re in, it doesn’t have to be basketball. Like, it’s obvious you are a seasoned podcast host and you’re really good at it. Well, you didn’t start there, right?

Brent Dowlen: You know you’ve come a long way. What’s that? I, I saw my first podcast on YouTube.

You can go see the very first episode and I can’t there to help me stay humble because every time I think I haven’t [00:19:00] gotten very far, like I go back and watch that first episode. I’m like, oh wow.

Dr. Dave Jones: Yeah. Yeah. So we all have started somewhere, right? And that’s not the finish. And so we all can put in the time, we all can read a little bit more, we can do more research, we can, you know, design again and again.

You know, like I, I think about some of the books I’ve written, you know, like I, my latest book, I just came out on thin ice. I wrote that 17 times. Yeah, like you just keep rewriting it and looking at it. At some point you go, okay, it is good enough. Like, let’s, let’s get it out. Um, you know, um, every, anything you’re pursuing is worth the repetition, I think, because it just allows you to feel fulfilled.

You know, there, there’s this, there’s this sort of. You know, there’s a, the what the world tells us that we gotta go to squirrel, go to school, get [00:20:00] good grades, get a job, learn a skill. You get paid for that skill. That world of, of that system has left almost 80% of the country disengaged at work, and they don’t trust management.

But when you find something that you love to do. And you’re executing it and you’re, you know, getting better and better at it all the time. You feel fulfilled and that fulfillment is what you gravitate to, not the skill development.

Brent Dowlen: Dr. Dave, let’s, uh, I, I, one of the biggest things I see that gives people is they always come up with excuses.

Right? The naysayers, the ones that are going mm-hmm. Yeah. But, right, and, and I can hear that pussy in the minds of people right now as they’re listening to this conversation. As we talked about, you know, it’s just putting in the reps. You can, you can put in the reps, you can become great at whatever you’re pursuing.

Yes. Uh, you get those values and those core values align and with your mission, and you can become unstoppable. [00:21:00] But there are some guys who like, hear the term core value and just go, oh, okay. Yeah, that’s, that. You know, that’s the, the corporate speak, that’s the, oh God, I always go blank on his name, Tony.

Tony Robbins. Yeah. Yeah. That’s that, that’s that Tony Robbins nonsense, right? Mm-hmm. How do you respond to that?

Dr. Dave Jones: How’s your life going now? Is it working for you now? Right. Typically it’s not when we, when we get into those kind of questions, right. It’s not working. So, you know, we gotta change, you know, so I, I kind of look at it, you know, there’s a great book called Outliers.

Um, by Malcolm Gladwell came out many years ago and what he defined was that, you know, at 4,000 hours we become a student at 6,000 and 8,000 hours to become a teacher, and at 10,000 hours we become an expert. And so, [00:22:00] you know, he looked at all sports and all professions and really did this amazing survey and it basically came down to that you may be at six and 8,000 hours of repetition.

You know, to get those additional hours in, to find that, to become an expert in your field, to feel fulfilled. It’s a lot of time most people become an expert before they’re 21 because, you know, they don’t have, they don’t have a family that, you know, they don’t have a significant other, you know, kids, you know.

Um, and so they’re kind of in that high school college space where they can just devote exorbitant amount of time to it. Um, but it’s not over for us that are over that are older. Sorry. Um, to put in that time. You know, it, it’s just how it works. I didn’t make the rules, man. You know? Um, it’s just how it works.

Brent Dowlen: That it is funny ’cause I, uh, you said I was a good podcast host and thank you for that, by the way. It’s, it’s always Yeah. Nice to hear. Uh, I, I didn’t pay him to say that guys, but, uh, [00:23:00] no, I, we, we talked, I mentioned my first episode is up there and I think of. I am, I am far from the best podcaster, guys. I love podcasts is why I do it.

And I listen to lots of other podcasters and like, look at how they ask questions, right? I’m, I’m still studying my craft every day. Mm-hmm. But I look at that first, that first time I turned on the camera. ’cause I grew up public speaking. Public speaking doesn’t I, I’ve spoken in front of thousands of people.

Doesn’t even phase me when I can read a crowd talking to a camera sucks. It’s a whole nother ball game. Right. But I look back in between the different shows I’ve done and the interviews I’ve done, I recorded easily 700, 800 episodes, 900 episodes between all my various podcasts and podcast appearances and stuff like that.

And it’s like I’m still growing in that, right? I know that. And [00:24:00] think about all the hours involved in that. I didn’t think about the hours as I was doing it. ’cause I loved what I was doing.

Dr. Dave Jones: Yeah,

Brent Dowlen: right. It aligned with my values, it aligned with my mission and I loved doing it. But I think about how many hours I spent on a single episode, and then I think about all the episodes I’ve been on, either as a guest or as a host.

And it’s like, holy crap, the hours are clocking, man. I, I haven’t even really thought about it in those ideas yet. That is, I’ve quoted that before the whole, the 10,000 hours to become an expert. I think a lot of men don’t understand that they’re a lot closer Yes. To where they want to be than they are.

Mm-hmm. Because like me, I, I didn’t think about all the hours. I mean, if I average and said, Hey, I spent five hours per episode, which is modest compared to some of the hours I’ve spent on episodes. [00:25:00] Right at, you know, seven, 800 episodes, 900 episodes, whatever I’ve recorded now between my shows and guessing, that’s a lot of hours.

Dr. Dave Jones: Yeah.

Brent Dowlen: Right. And I, I don’t think a lot of men understand that they’re closer to their goals or closer to their dreams than they realize.

Dr. Dave Jones: I would, I would, I 1000% agree. I I, I do wanna point out that there’s, there’s two different mindsets. Okay? There’s what’s called a fixed mindset and a growth mindset. So Brett, you obviously have a growth mindset that you wanna get better all the time.

And you, it’s, it’s kind of interesting that you haven’t even looked at the hours because somebody with a growth mindset really doesn’t, they don’t go 10,000 hours, I’m done, I’m an expert. No, it’s always growth. It’s always how can I become better? So when you have a fixed mindset, it’s like, yeah, I’ve done that.

There’s nothing there. Or I was born this height, I was [00:26:00] born, this weight, I was born, this skin color. I was born in this city, this town. It is what it is, right? Um, that’s a fixed mindset. People that move on in this world, mentally, emotionally, physically and spiritually, not just financially. Okay? People that have a growth mindset, they’re always looking at.

Being agile and how can they get better? What can they read? What can they attend? Who can they get around? You know, this is how we do it. And so I think this is where the fallible man comes in, because you know, you’re not perfect. You are, you are making mistakes. I actually, I actually think, uh, I got this quote from Michael Jordan, which is a kind of an egotistical statement.

He said, I don’t make mistakes. I looked at him, I, I look at him as learning opportunities. He said, I’ve never made a mistake in my life. They’re all learning opportunities. And I thought that was, that’s awesome mindset, right? That, oh, I made a mistake. I’m a loser. I’ll never do that again. Right? Well, [00:27:00] no. You learn from it.

You grow from it. We all sinners, man. We all making mistakes. You know, the only way you don’t get better is if you quit.

Brent Dowlen: Let me ask you, do you encourage people to write down the core values after they’ve established them? Are you a I I, like, I’m not a journaling guy.

Dr. Dave Jones: Yeah.

Brent Dowlen: Uh, I know a lot of people find a lot of value in journaling. I’ve, I’ve tried. I’ve just, it’s never been something that I really responded to. But would you encourage people to write down those values, to outline them somewhere they can see them and be reminded?

Dr. Dave Jones: Yeah, so there’s a little story here. There’s a, there’s a book in the Bible called Habakkuk. And Habakkuk at the time was, um, he was a minor prophet and he was frustrated with God. And so he goes up on this watchtower, and the way I position it is that, you know, this is a time when Nineveh was crazy.

Nobody wanted to go to Nineveh. So I look at Nineveh as like, you know, the New York and Los Angeles of the seventies. It was crazy town. Anything goes. [00:28:00] And so. So he goes up in this watchtower and he says, God, I’m frustrated. Like I’m just gonna sit here until you tell me what the heck’s going on. And God responds to him with Write the vision on a tablet.

And in the amplified Bible it says, and make it plain so the runner running by can see it and carry it with him. I’ve translated this into, like you and I, Brett, driving down the highway at 60 miles per hour, and we see this exit sign that says McDonald’s next exit. That’s pretty clear. We can get off. We understand what it is.

You know, if you have a, if you have a, you know, you’re driving 60 miles per hour and you see a billboard that has more than 11 words on it. You’re not gonna know what it is, you’re not gonna carry it with you. And so, you know, the example I use is like, I can go back to presidential elections and go back to Obama.

And, you know, he said change. Yes, we can. He probably rallied the nation, perhaps the world with that vision. This isn’t meant to be a political [00:29:00] statement, it’s just a vision statement. And you know, we know, um, we know, uh, Trump has used, um, make America Great again. Over and over and over again. You know, it’s something simple and it’s easy to get around.

So yes, write it down. Write it on a three by five card. Keep it in your back pocket, you know, until you know what your vision is, you know, and, and then, and then you don’t need to carry it with you anymore. You carry it with you in your brain, not physically on you. So my, my personal vision is, you know, to unify excellence in the marketplace.

That’s my vision. I take it everywhere I go. And what’s interesting is things that are messy usually gravitate towards me and I’m able to clean ’em up and organize ’em and you know, put ’em in a vision mission, core value, brand promise, narrative and story and be able to tell a story clearly.

Brent Dowlen: It’s, it’s funny ’cause I think a lot of times we think we know.

What those things are for us, [00:30:00] right? We think we know what our core values are. We think we have a handle on what our vision is and what our, our direction is that we think we’re supposed to go. So I, I don’t know how you feel about, you know, AI and all this stuff that’s popping up with ai, but for YouTube, there’s a company called Vid iq, okay?

And they’re, they’re, they’re a great asset. They, uh. They track your channel in real time. They offer you suggestions on how to tweak everything about from your thumbnail to your titles, to your everything in it. Right. But they have a AI coach built into it now. And so you can like run questions by it.

Well, I’ve had a bit IQ account for years now. Right. So I was really curious the other day because I, I hit this kind of wall. And it’s like, man, I just don’t feel like I’m, I’m hitting the right group, right? The, [00:31:00] my, my, uh, what’s the word? Mm. I just wanna blank on it. This is what happens when I go totally off script.

Uh, my, my character, right? The, the, I have his, I call him Bob. He is my, this is the person I’m aiming for, right?

Dr. Dave Jones: Yeah. We call that your persona.

Brent Dowlen: I have five pages of worked out of questions on defining who Bob is, but I was really curious, so I asked Vid iq. It’s like, Hey, compare my channel. Ignore who I’ve listed as my competitors, the people in the same group field as me.

Look at my content and identify. My five big competitors for me on YouTube are in the same field. It didn’t bring back a single one of the people I thought I was competing with. Wow. As a podcaster, right. [00:32:00] I had five podcasts. I identified the, I thought, okay, this is the field I am in. This is the group I am in.

Didn’t return, a single one of them, came up with a bunch of channels I had never heard of before. I started looking at their channels compared to mine and started looking at what they had on there, types of content. What they listed was their, you know, this is what we cover, and it’s like, man, I’ve spent years comparing myself to the wrong group.

I’m not in that category. This is where I thought I was going originally, but the way I do my content, what I think is important to talk about, does not align with that group. I think a lot of men find themselves in that, where we think we have a pretty good handle on it, but mm-hmm. Until we get some outside perspective.

Right. An an observer, an outside onlooker going, uh, I [00:33:00] don’t think you’re playing the game you think you’re playing, bro.

Dr. Dave Jones: Mm-hmm.

Brent Dowlen: I think that happens to a lot of guys, so. For the men listening, what would be your advice? As far as as they’re, they’re looking at their mission, their vision. They’re trying to, right.

They haven’t necessarily even put it in those words yet. They’re starting to try and go, okay, so I need to align with core values. I need to have a vision. You know? What would be your advice as far as like flushing that out and identifying that in their own life?

Dr. Dave Jones: Yeah. So I think that whenever we compare ourselves to other people, like, like if I compare myself to you, Brett, the first thing I’m gonna do is, is look at you and go, man, you’re awesome at this.

Right? I’m not that. And so, so we see things that we like, so we compare ourselves to what they’re really good at. [00:34:00] And, and we look at ourselves that we don’t do that. And so it’s a, it’s a loss, right? Right off the bat. So I kind of look at, again, back to, you know, what makes you upset. There’s some deep level passion there, right?

There’s some deep seated stuff in there. That’s where you start. So I really don’t like messy things. That’s where I started. Like I just don’t like things that are mess. Why? I don’t know why. Maybe it’s my upbringing, maybe it’s what’s in my DNA. And so I take that and I flip it to a pause and we go, okay, what’s the opposite of messy?

Well, perfect. It can’t be perfect because I’ll never be perfect. But what about excellence? What about committed? What about persistent? What about what? Um, accountable, right? And so I wrestle with that and I go, you know what? I, I think I’m excellence is what it is. What exactly is excellence? And so [00:35:00] now I take that as sort of my subject and I work it around.

So one of the best vision statements I ever wrote was, uh, for a company called Freedom United, which is the largest modern day anti-slavery organization in the world. And their vision was to, is to end slavery. And so like it’s a great vision statement, isn’t it? To end slavery. Who doesn’t want to end slavery, whether it’s work slavery or sexual slavery, like it’s just a good to end slavery, and so it doesn’t have to be long.

And so you kind of start investigating, you know, what are some really good vision statements out there and how could. Whatever it is that, that, you know, makes you upset and you’re passionate about flipping into a positive and start kind of wrestling with, okay, what are some other things that are out there and then you aspire to it doesn’t mean you’re ever gonna achieve it, you aspire to it.

And so that’s kind of the start of it. And I would say that I’ve [00:36:00] coached a lot of executives in this space a lot. And, um, for me to coach somebody through it. It does take six weeks, seven weeks. It’s not something you can come up with immediately and you get it. This is not like digging a hole in the backyard.

Like if you get a bunch of shovels and a bunch of buddies, you can get a bigger hole faster. You’re talking about vision for your life. It’s something that’s mental, emotional, physical, and spiritual. It’s something you gotta wrestle with. You gotta play with, you gotta, you gotta talk about it, you know, and you fine tune it over time.

One of my, um, mentors in this area, his name is Tom Adama. Tom was on the right hand man to John Maxwell, and I spent a year with him and just understanding what vision is and so, you know, it does take time. And that’s where he said, you know, it takes, you know, the three problems of vision. One, you don’t have it, two, you don’t believe it, three, you’re not communicating it.

And so it’s just not something that you, that you get overnight. It’s, it’s just takes time to, to kind of lay out there and keep working it and keep working it. Um, and then it’ll [00:37:00] come, it will come. Um, it’s not one and done. And so, um, that would be my advice is where to start, start there. And then the same thing with your values.

You know, what, what do you value at your core? And so, you know, when you flip those to a positive and that’s a great start, and you’re, you’re, you’re, you know, you, you’ll start to align with those people in your life and you gotta make decisions to, I, one of my mentors told me, he said, if you don’t like where you’re at, get a new set of friends.

Because you’re the, you’re the culmination of your five friends. You’re right there in the middle. I thought, wow, this is awesome. Like, I need a new set of friends, man.

Brent Dowlen: I think that was one of the hardest pills to swallow when I started going my own direction. Uh, when I left the corporate world and trying to get out on my own and build my own. This is what I wanna do. This is how I wanna serve people. Mm-hmm. [00:38:00] Make the world a better place. Was, I had to start looking at my friends and be like, uh, are these friends, whether they understand the vision or not, are they trying to support me in that?

Are they uplifting me in that or are they trying to be like, let’s get some sins back into you. Right. That’s a, that’s a really hard pill to swallow, and you start realizing that some of those people in your life are not conducive. To those values.

Dr. Dave Jones: Yeah. It doesn’t make ’em bad people. Right. Right. It just, it it, that’s the thing.

It’s like you, you don’t, I don’t think you excommunicate them, but you just, you kind of move in a direction where you can get around people that can help you go where you need to go. Doesn’t make ’em bad, doesn’t make you wrong or Right. Just means you’re going in a different direction.

Brent Dowlen: Let me ask you this, ’cause you, you’ve mentioned the, you know, start with uh, what you don’t like, right?

Dr. Dave Jones: Yeah.

Brent Dowlen: How do you sort [00:39:00] out between what is a foundational value or what should be a foundational value versus what sounds like a good idea or what just might be a good rule to put in place to help the journey. Mm-hmm. Right. Because all three of those things, they come real close to each other and, and sorting them out can be a little convoluted.

Dr. Dave Jones: Yeah, I, I don’t know that it, it’s all that clean. It can be convoluted. It’s okay. Right. It’s, to me it’s more about what the direction, you know, of, of where I’m going. And I feel good about that direction and it’s gonna be good for everybody around me. Um, so I don’t know that it’s super clean. There’s definitely some overlap there.

And you get, and it’s okay. You know, as humans, man, we’re, we’re a little messy, you know, so we don’t have to have it, you know, not all the lines touching. They, there’s some overlap there. It’s a great question though.

Brent Dowlen: Now, gentlemen, there is one of the most important takeaways you need to hear in this whole show [00:40:00] right here.

You, you now have official permission, okay? It’s, it’s, it’s official. It’s been recorded. Dr. Dave says it’s okay that it’s a little screwing, convoluted. It’s not gonna be clean.

Dr. Dave Jones: Yes,

Brent Dowlen: because I think some of us need to hear that. Like, I know there was a point in my journey I needed to hear that because I am a man.

I’m, I’m a planner. Like I, I am organized and I research and I plan, and I don’t generally get lost in the planning and that keeps me from executing, but like. Before I take action, I’ve done a lot of research. I’ve dug into it. I feel like I have to have this clean line, and there was definitely a time when I needed to hear it’s okay that it’s a little convoluted right now.

You’ll, you’ll sort it out as you go. I think a lot of us never start because we get into that convoluted territory. We’re like, [00:41:00] we just freeze up. We’re like, oh my God. Obviously I don’t know what I’m doing. Right.

Dr. Dave Jones: Yeah, it gets, yeah. You know, there’s a common saying out there, well, I need to get my ducks in a row.

And I, and I say, well, show me ducks in a row. When have you ever seen ducks in a row? You know, it’s just not, and maybe it’s a peabody at the, you know, the, in Nashville, like where they, it’s got ’em trained to walk in a row like that just doesn’t happen. It’s, it’s just, it’s not real.

Brent Dowlen: Dr. Dave,

we’ve covered.

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Today we’ve covered where I wanted to go as far as like making sure we crossed our T’s and dotted our i’s on this. [00:43:00] Um mm-hmm. But what am I missing?

Dr. Dave Jones: So this is something that’s, that’s coming out, uh, probably next year. It’s gonna be my third book. And this one I’m super excited because my other two books have been really kind of a story around faith and around vision.

But this book is gonna be a productivity book about what inhibits us from, from performance. And so I’ve sort of. Taking it down into, what an acronym called flap. Alright, so what gets in the way of our core value? What gets in the way of, of having a growth mindset Is our flap. Okay? It’s our fear, it’s our lust, it’s our anger and our pride.

So if we’re mindful of our fear, less anger or pride, and we know that it’s something that gets [00:44:00] us, then we can move forward. But if we just ignore it, then you’re just, you’re going to fall victim to it. And so many leaders, so many people across the country fall victim to this every day. And I, and I like to say that we all struggle with least two of these every single day.

Lust is one of those areas where, well, you may not have sexual lust, right? And never get trapped in there. Most guys do ’cause that’s how we’re built. But, um, but I would say a lot of the lust is possession, lust, right? It’s things that I want that are, I want a bigger house, I want a faster car. I want a newer car.

I want a bigger bank account. I want multiple commas in my bank account. And this, this drives us. Versus our values driving us versus our vision driving us. And so, um, you know, your fear, there’s, there’s two types of fear. There’s the fear, there’s a preservation fear, [00:45:00] which is like, okay, I’m standing on the top of a building and I know I shouldn’t jump, I, I shouldn’t jump off the building.

That’s a good fear, right? But there’s also the bad fear that cripples us through that anxiety and stress that we have. That if I change what happens? You know, there’s that fear. There’s the fear of lust, anger, right? Oh my gosh. Anger is all about where we think we need to go. And somebody’s somebody’s in the way.

Somebody’s getting in the way. And this makes me angry. We see this with, um, driving a car in, in traffic. Right? Mm-hmm. And so somebody gets in my way. I need to go fast, and you’re driving too slow. What’s wrong with you? You know, you know, so this, this anger and then our pride, oh my gosh, our pride, um, pride comes before the fall, right?

The, the pride that we have in our inability to be agile gets in our [00:46:00] way.

Brent Dowlen: Dr. Dave, let me ask you, so. Defacto answer, right. The the best answer and I, I will stand by it personally as well. The best answer for flap is God yes. Amen. No, no questions asked. I, I a hundred percent believe that guys, I know there are people who listen to this show who are not faith-based.

What would be your advice to them? Other than, you know, start a relationship we got ’cause yes, that is definitely the right answer. But for those who are not ready to make that jump, right, you’re dealing with fear and lust and anger. What are and pride? What, what do you advise them?

Dr. Dave Jones: Uh, I would say that you’re spot on with the topic of, you know, your core values.

You know, there’s something inherently good about [00:47:00] what you want outta life. Your flap is not bringing you there. And so the first, very first step is to recognize you got an issue. If you don’t, if you don’t recognize it, we really can’t do anything with it. You gotta say, you know what? I have this issue. So it’s not about God, it’s about, you know, doing good in the world based upon your values and your vision, and feeling fulfilled of who you are, bringing value to the world, building something bigger than yourselves.

So whether it’s you’re part of a, a nonprofit or a, or a for-profit organization like building something bigger, when you get into your pride, it’s all about you and your low emotional intelligence. And we’ve all been around those people that they’re just so stuck on the same topic over and over and over again.

It’s ’cause they lack vision in their life. And so I think the first step is just to recognize I got an issue. [00:48:00] Right. And then start, start from there.

Brent Dowlen: I, I would a hundred percent agree. I mean, you, until you actually go, Hey, maybe, maybe it’s me. Maybe I’m, I’m throttling myself back here. Uh, it’s, it’s really hard to go into a forward momentum until you at least humor that idea.

Yeah. And I

Dr. Dave Jones: think the world, the Brett, the world’s gonna say it’s okay to watch all this porn. It’s okay, everybody else does it. Look at all these people doing it. Look at all the OnlyFans. Look at how much money you can make here. That’s cool. Like the world tells us our flap is, but our internal fulfillment meter says it’s not.

God is the answer at the, ultimately, like you said,

Brent Dowlen: Dr. Dave, you got the book you’re working on for next year. You [00:49:00] said it’s coming out next year. Yeah, that’s if you don’t write, rewrite it 17 times. Yes, you got me with that one. ’cause I have, uh, written the first a hundred pages of the book I started five years ago, probably seven times.

And I’ve never gotten past 120 pages before I started on it again. Uh, yes. Right. I, I get so far and then I like, is this really the direction I want? Like, and, and totally. Mm-hmm. Redo it in my head. I have so many drafts, it’s ridiculous. So I feel felt you and you’re like, I rewrote it 17 times. Yeah. Um.

Other than the new book, what is next? What’s on the horizon for Dr. Dave Jones?

Dr. Dave Jones: Oh, man, I, I’m, uh, just like your listeners, viewers out there. I’m chasing it too, man. You know, I’m making mistakes along the way. I’m looking at those and going, okay, how can I be a better version of myself? Um, yeah. So, I mean, I’m chasing excellence, you know, I’m, I am really super [00:50:00] inspired to help as many people get where they would need to go.

That’s what I’m inspired to do because I inherently, I, I kind of know if I help enough people get where they need to go, I’ll probably land in a good place too. So that’s what m is good is m is good as a Christian ad agency and, you know, we really, um, love working with clients that wanna glorify the Lord with their talents and their abilities.

And so I, I just really am in a, a serving mode right now of helping as many people as I can.

Brent Dowlen: I love it, you know. So I freelance on the side. I’m a podcast producer. I do several things. Uh, I actually have a friend who owns a digital, uh, marketing company in Florida. Small one man show. He outsources some of his work to me ’cause I do a lot of the stuff.

Anyways, I produce podcasts for some of his, uh, uh, clients and stuff like that. But honestly, like working is the first time I’ve ever worked for, [00:51:00] or with, I should say, well, four. Another Christian, and man, I, I am so, so blessed. Like it has been so glorious working with a person who is more focused on his faith and making sure that what we’re doing is serving and glorifying God as we went go, and the way we do business and the way we treat our clients.

Uh, it has been, I, I’ve worked for Fortune 100 companies. I worked in the corporate world for years and it has been such a breath of fresh air to work with somebody. It is the only time I’ve ever been in a business meeting and we’d be like, we need to stop and pray about, about this. Yeah. The just, just the relationship with him, it’s just so amazing working with another believer.

So that’s been such a glorious thing. I’m, I’m enjoying that so much. Uh, so I, I understand why you like working with believers ’cause it’s like. [00:52:00] You know what, that’s a very different experience you’ve got.

Dr. Dave Jones: Yeah. And, and I would say that I’m, so this is my 25th year I’ve been in this bubble, this Christian bubble of working with Christian entrepreneur entrepreneurs.

And like I, um, I hear some stories from friends in the corporate world and I’m like, wow. Like that’s just not what I’ve ever done. Like, you know, kind of some of the backstabbing, like we have so many clients that like, you know, they have their own designers and we have a designer, and it’s like a collaborative face off on, okay, let’s see what, what ads work, let’s push ’em out there to the world.

It’s, it’s not like somebody’s job’s on the line and we have to put somebody else down so we can pretend to look like we’re better. It’s just not that. Environment at all. And, um, and so I, I do know that there are some Christian environments that are not healthy. Mm-hmm. Um, but we’re, we’re definitely, um, striving to be healthy and, and bring on the best product we can to glorify the Lord.[00:53:00]

Brent Dowlen: It’s, uh, it’s amazing ’cause the amount of like ethics classes I had to take, right? Mm-hmm. The yearly ethics training and stuff like that for some of the company I work for. And then to have my job be at risk because I push back. I’m like, this violates ethics. We, you know, I, I won’t do this. They’re like, it doesn’t violate any ethics as well within our contract.

It’s like, yeah, there’s what’s within our contract and there’s what’s right and this is, this is really, you are laying in that gray zone. Really heavy guys. I’m not okay with this. And to have that actually be like. Well, then maybe you should find another job. I was like, yeah, I, I think I, yeah, maybe I should.

Yeah. You know, I, I left a job in sales because it’s like, they told me they were really super ethical and, and faith-based. And it’s like, you know, they don’t push hard, they don’t hard sell or anything like that. And then the jobs, like they, the [00:54:00] leads they would send me on, it’s like, whoa, no, I, I, I can’t sell to this person.

They’re, they’re. They’re on social security and, you know, living in a manufactured home and barely surviving and their health is shot. And no, I’m not gonna sell ’em a $40,000 product. That’s, that’s, that’s insane. Well, they got my paycheck. No. Like I, I have to look at myself and I gotta look at my wife when I go home.

I gotta only got children in the eye. It was like, nah. So it is been a great experience working with people who actually live by faith.

Dr. Dave Jones: Well, this is back to the values conversation, you know, like having it a little messy and knowing I don’t wanna be in that environment, right? Mm-hmm. So you don’t have to have that like that written down and like, you know, in a perfect sentence, you just know that’s not what I want to be part of.

That’s a value. Yeah. You know? Yeah. That’s

Brent Dowlen: good. Where’s the best place for people to connect with you? [00:55:00]

Dr. Dave Jones: Yeah, we just tell ’em to go to emmas good.com and contact me there.

Brent Dowlen: That’s a really good name. How, what is M Got it. What is M?

Dr. Dave Jones: So the original name was Marketing Ministries and so I, in 2013, we rebranded.

We wanted something like, like a Verizon, like what’s a Verizon? Mm-hmm. What’s a Geico? GEICO stands for government Employee insurance company. But they use a gecko and a pig to say, Geico, what’s an apple? You know? It’s a fruit. No, it’s not. It’s a pretty big computer company. Mm-hmm. And so we wanted something fun.

So at the time my VP says, well, what about M is good? And I was like, well, can’t we be great? That’s fair. And he and I was like, well, you know, there’s a saying in the, you know, months evangelicals is, God is good, God. God is good all the time. All the time. God is good. Mm-hmm. And so it kind of spun off that.

So I just tell people that, you know, M can be whatever you want it to be. It [00:56:00] could be marketing, it could be money, it could be ministries, whatever. Love

Brent Dowlen: it, Dr. Dave, as we land this plane, regardless of what we talked about. Yeah. What is the most important thing you want our audience to hear today?

Dr. Dave Jones: Oh, man. I would say that God’s got a plan for your life and glorifying him with your talents and your abilities is the best place to be, man. It’s the most humble place to be. It’s a growth mindset and, um, you know, God’s gotta play. It’s kind of, I don’t know, I guess something everybody says, but it’s true.

God’s got a plan for your life. And, uh, no matter where you’re at on the spectrum of terms of job or money or whatever, it doesn’t really matter. You know, you can put in the reps today and, um, and, and build a better life for tomorrow if you embrace the [00:57:00] idea that. God’s got a plan Free life.

Brent Dowlen: I love it guys.

For Dr. Dave and myself, thanks for hanging out with us today. Be better tomorrow because of what you do today. We’ll see you on the next one. The Driven 2 Thrive broadcast, purpose, growth, and lasting impact for men, helping men go from living to thriving. Purpose-filled intentional lives. Affiliate disclaimer, MyPillow like any other source cycles, promos because of the extended lifecycle of a podcast.

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