Evan Sanchez: When Your Daughter Says She Was Afraid of You The Dad Wake Up Call

Evan Sanchez: [00:00:00] Just the fact that you’re not broken no matter who you are. Mm-hmm. I think is so important to realize, because we all have this negative self-talk. We all have these things that we don’t like about ourselves, and we don’t treat ourselves well. She’s always been into dogs and the thing about her being neurodivergent is she has very restricted interests.

Mm-hmm. Right? Which I tell her, you know, the fact that you can have a restricted interest. Dogs or like Harry Potter movies or something like that. I’m like, that is a superpower. And and she told me recently how she was afraid of me for a while because I’d always get so angry. And that just cut me so deeply.

And even like now, it feels like a dagger in the heart. And. It’s, I was doing the [00:01:00] best I can with what I had, but I, I still should have been, I still regret not being there. It’s, it’s like, you know, they talk about airplanes, you know, put on your own mask before you help the other person, and I wasn’t putting on my own mask.

Brent Dowlen: Every dad has that story. They just love to tell when they talk about their kids. What is your favorite story?

Evan Sanchez: My favorite dad story is also, um, what I’m most ashamed about. It’s the story of not knowing my daughter was neuro neurodiverse and tell until she got into college. So there were many, many years where I didn’t understand why she was a picky eater, why she couldn’t transition, why she had to wear baggy clothes, and the list goes on.

But it’s, it was just like a lot of things that I didn’t [00:02:00] realize and, and what I’m ashamed to say is that I didn’t know. Uh, I didn’t know how to handle it and I wasn’t my best self at that point either. Not to make excuses, but I was not at my best self. And, and she told me recently how she was afraid of me for a while because I’d always get so angry and that just.

Cut me so deeply and even like now, it feels like a dagger in the heart and it’s, I was doing the best I can with what I had, but I, I still should have been, I still regret not being there. The, the good news is that she was able to tell me about it and that. That I feel is success because [00:03:00] we’ve talked through it, we’ve, we’ve talked about it.

I, as a father, grew up with a father who was a narcissist who wasn’t there physically and emotionally for me, and I wanted to be there for my children. I wanted to be able to be there when they hurt, when they fell down, when they, you know, had, um, people break up with them, things like that. I wanted to, to be that emotional support that I did not have and to be physically present as well, and just to know that I wasn’t, hurts me.

Very deeply and I just, you know, obviously I can’t go back in time, but I’m really glad that I have the kind of relationship now with my daughter where we can talk about this, this stuff [00:04:00] and I can apologize to her, even though I can’t change the past,

Brent Dowlen: man. No, no. Dad, I like, I can, I can feel the pain just, just even. My that, that would just break me if my daughter said something like that to me. But it’s amazing that you are moving forward, right? You’ve got, everybody thinks that you screw up their childhood and it’s like, oh, it’s over. Well, y you got a lot of years left.

You know, they’re different years. Uh, I, I’m, I’m, I’m excited about the conversation. I have several dads in my life of neurodivergent children. Uh, and it adds, uh, just another depth to having to be a dad. So we’re gonna have this incredible conversation and I’m totally looking forward to it. Gents. I sleep on a MyPillow.

I sleep on MyPillow Giza sheets and MyPillow body pillows. I have MyPillow towels. My wife wears [00:05:00] MyPillow slippers. We have MyPillow merchandise throughout our entire house because it is such great quality products that I love every single one of ’em, and I would never recommend a company to you that I don’t use.

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Welcome [00:06:00] to the Dad Hatch Shenanigans podcast, the unfiltered truth about being a dad. Real dad’s real stories, unfiltered, candid conversations on fatherhood. I’m your host, Brent, and today my guest is Evan Sanchez. Evan, welcome to the Dad Hatch Shenanigans podcast.

Evan Sanchez: Oh, thank you for having me. Happy to be here.

Brent Dowlen: Evan, I, I love, I love that you could open up in the first part of the show and this is gonna be a really great conversation. But as you know, being a dad hat listener, that you have a hat and you gotta tell the story. You gotta explain why you chose this hat of all hats to wear today.

Evan Sanchez: So this hat. It’s, it’s partially to cover up the baldness, but,

but this was my grandfather’s hat and I’ll, I’ll humble brag on him a little bit because he grew up the son of a butcher and in the depression, no money. [00:07:00] Um, he worked his way up the corporate ladder, became a CEO of a company, of a book publishing company in the eighties. Then he, um, then they made him retire.

’cause he was 65 and he went back to law school. It took him three times to pass the bar and he practiced till he was 97.

Brent Dowlen: Nice.

Evan Sanchez: And I wear this hat because not only is, was it his hat, but. After my grandmother died, he’d always wanted a dog, and my grandmother was against it. So he brought this, he got this, um, golden Shepherd, golden Retriever, I’m sorry, golden Retriever named Harvey, 120 pounds big dog.

And he loved having that dog around. And [00:08:00] when he passed, we got to inherit Harvey. And Harvey was just the mayor of the neighborhood. So, and, and he passed about a couple years ago, but he was just a great dog. And, um, golden retrievers. I just love their energy. They just have just chill energy and he, and he was such a good dog.

But, so I wear this not only in remembrance of. My grandfather, but also in remembrance of Harvey,

Brent Dowlen: right? And you gotta describe the hat a little bit. For our listeners who aren’t catching this on one of the, like YouTube or something for our audio listeners, what’s on the hat?

Evan Sanchez: It’s a picture of a dog. So, so

Brent Dowlen: now that all makes sense.

Evan Sanchez: Yep. It’s a picture of a golden retriever. It’s kind of, it’s embroidery.

Brent Dowlen: If you guys are listening, that makes more sense now, right?

Evan Sanchez: Yes, it does. I should have described it in in advance.

Brent Dowlen: Oh, no, that’s fine. Uh, one of the joys of podcasting is remembering always that it’s an [00:09:00] audio first. And like, and that’s where all my listeners are anyways.

Everybody listens, listens to the show,

Evan Sanchez: right?

Brent Dowlen: Very few people watch it and see my beautiful red hat. I, I feel,

Evan Sanchez: which is a shame,

Brent Dowlen: right? I feel under,

Evan Sanchez: it’s beautiful.

Brent Dowlen: But I, I gotta keep that in mind when I, when I talk about things. So Evan, you said you have a daughter. Is it just the one child or?

Evan Sanchez: I have a daughter.

Um, she’s in her junior year of college.

Brent Dowlen: Mm-hmm.

Evan Sanchez: And I have a son. Okay. Who’s in his freshman year. Um, what’s interesting about my son is that, um. I’m five 10, he’s six five. And so, so I walk around with him and I feel like I have a bodyguard around me at all times. So, um, wow. Yeah, it’s just, and yeah, so, um, I think it came from my wife’s size.

She’s, she’s five [00:10:00] 10, but she has, you know, relatives who are, who are taller. So. Somehow he got up six five and he’s on does rowing. So he is, he is really enjoying that. But um, what’s interesting about him is that it took him a long time to find his sport or to find his passion. ’cause like his dad, he tried trumpet, he tried saxophone.

Um, he can sing. Saxophone represent.

Brent Dowlen: Saxophone represent.

Evan Sanchez: Nice. So he, he tried, um, singing, which I can’t do at all. Um, and then he went to, he tried badminton, he tried soccer, baseball, football, all these sports. And once he found rowing, he was just like, that’s what I gotta do. And so. That’s, you know, that’s what I love about him is like he, he’s really like [00:11:00] very, um, very intentional.

You know, he’d go, he would do things like, he would do Rubik’s Cubes competition, which I don’t know if you’ve ever. Seen those, but they’re absolutely insane

Brent Dowlen: in awe. When I watched

Evan Sanchez: those Yeah, I, I was, he’s like, dad, it’s just an algorithm. I’m like, yeah, Zander. I, I, I, I couldn’t solve it in the eighties. I can’t solve it now.

Yeah. But he would, he would go to Rubik’s Cube competition and be timed. And be able to solve one in like, you know, 30, 45 seconds or stuff like that. And they have like all different sizes, like two by two, three by three, four by four, five by five pyramids and even blind.

Brent Dowlen: Mm-hmm.

Evan Sanchez: Which is just crazy to me.

So, um, I just love, like when he goes into something, he’s like going in hard and he, he’s, um, at college for biochem and, um. [00:12:00] Marine science and he loves marine science. So that’s his, that’s his passion right. Now.

Brent Dowlen: Are the kids at the same school or are they at different schools?

Evan Sanchez: No, different schools, so, but my daughter has been into dogs for a long time.

We actually have three dogs more than I, and we accidentally got three dogs. And, and you’re like, Evan, how do you accidentally get three dogs? Well, you had one that you got from the rescue. My stepmom died. We got hers, right? Mm-hmm. And then we found one, we found a Poms ski appearing, uh, um, a Pomeranian Husky on the soccer field.

So now I have. Two kids in college, three dogs.

Brent Dowlen: That’s just wrong.

Evan Sanchez: I know

Brent Dowlen: That’s a wrong cross breed. So wrong.

Evan Sanchez: Yeah. So it’s, um, yeah, it’s not what I pictured in my empty nest years, but, you know, I can, I can’t complain. I’m, I’m [00:13:00] proud of both of ’em. Um, my daughters

Brent Dowlen: mind. How, how, how you ended up with three dogs like that doesn’t even surprise me.

Yeah. People were like, yeah, and I ended up with this one and I.

Evan Sanchez: It’s a slippery slope.

Brent Dowlen: Yeah.

Evan Sanchez: It’s a, it’s a very slippery slope. So, but she’s always been into dogs and the thing about her being neurodivergent is she has very restricted interests. Mm-hmm. Right. Which I tell her, you know, the fact that you can have a restricted interest like dogs or like Harry Potter movies or something like that.

I’m like, that is a superpower. That is a superpower to be able to, to be able to go into depth into something like that. And um, and when she found out her diagnosis, she was just so relieved. She was just like so happy

Brent Dowlen: means

Evan Sanchez: because now she understood how her brain works.

Brent Dowlen: It means you’re not crazy. It’s [00:14:00] really, really rough to go through years being different.

And just having people look at you like there’s something wrong with you.

Evan Sanchez: Mm-hmm.

Brent Dowlen: And then you, ’cause you start to question, it’s like, oh, well maybe there is something wrong with me. Uh, it’s, it’s a huge relief a lot of times for people who are diagnosed later in life. No, you aren’t crazy. You’re not broken.

Evan Sanchez: Right. And that, and that’s, that’s really, I, I like what she said there. You’re not broken because I think that as dads, as men, um. And, and we talked about this a little before, but just like, you know, there’s a standard of like, you always have to, you know, be strong. You always have to, you know, like, like sports.

I didn’t like sports. I still don’t like sports. I’m in the minority, right? I’m not good at sports. I don’t like sports. I work out a lot, but you know, there’s that [00:15:00] there. But, and in my childhood, I felt like there was something wrong with me. Because I wasn’t good at sports and I didn’t enjoy them.

Brent Dowlen: This is actually it.

We’re, we’re, we’re treading into a subject that is near and dear to my heart. Uh, my oldest niece, I think she was before she was officially diagnosed, and they had to go to a children’s hospital. They had been going to doctors for years before they figured out where she fell on the spectrum and that she was on the spectrum.

And this what it actually meant for her to understand that diagnosis and. Uh, I think my best friend, one of my very best friends, one of our first guests on this show actually, um, he is autistic.

Evan Sanchez: Mm-hmm.

Brent Dowlen: His wife is on a different spot on the spectrum, and three of his four children are on the spectrum, and they’re all in different places on the spectrum of neurodivergent.

Evan Sanchez: Right.

Brent Dowlen: [00:16:00] And so their house is.

It’s an exciting place to hang out.

How

Evan Sanchez: so?

Brent Dowlen: Oh, I have, well, when you’ve got five people in one enclo living in one enclosed space that are all neurodivergent, but all neurodivergent in different ways.

Evan Sanchez: Mm-hmm.

Brent Dowlen: It makes everyday task a thousand times harder. Because now you’re dealing with the over need or focus or, uh, inability to do certain, right?

It’s, it’s all this mix, right? So house, the house is chaos. Life is chaos. There’s a thousand things going on all the time. And with each child, um, two of them are best friends with my two daughters. So my chil, my children [00:17:00] understand their friends well and accept, right? Like when one of them, one of them can, if she’s having a rough day, that day can be pretty nasty.

And my youngest is like, she’s having a bad day. It’s okay. Right? She just brushes it off like a duck with water, you know?

Evan Sanchez: That’s beautiful. That’s absolutely beautiful that they’re able to see that. And acknowledge it and not let it be a you are broken thing.

Brent Dowlen: It, it, my kids are very empathetic. So it took a lot of, there were some conversations early on as we got to know them.

Uh, both like her mom explaining it to her and then, uh, me and my wife talking with our children. It’s like, oh, well, you know, okay, this means this and this means, you know, so, uh, we, we were. Blessed with the fact that because my nieces, [00:18:00] one of my nieces is and has very specific needs because of it and very specific, um, some people would call ’em peculiar peculiarities because of it, uh, what she can and cannot do, how she functions.

It prepped them well for interacting with other kids and going, oh, you know. Maybe Right. They give them the benefit of the doubt that there might be something else happening. So

Evan Sanchez: yeah, we,

Brent Dowlen: we were pried for it.

Evan Sanchez: Yeah, that’s good. But I think it’s important to realize that, you know, not everybody’s the same and everybody has their own issues going on.

Brent Dowlen: Oh yeah. And

Evan Sanchez: even, you know. You know, I, I haven’t been diagnosed as neurodivergent. I imagine I’m normal. I don’t know. But, but, but you know, just the fact, [00:19:00] uh, just the fact that you’re not broken no matter who you are

Brent Dowlen: mm-hmm.

Evan Sanchez: I think is so important to realize, because we all have this negative self-talk. We all have these things that we don’t like about ourselves, and we don’t treat ourselves well.

Brent Dowlen: They didn’t, uh, you, you mentioned you were Gen XI, I’m the very end of Gen X and I was in sixth grade. The first time we ever even heard of A DHD or a DD.

Evan Sanchez: Oh yeah.

Brent Dowlen: That was the first time anybody had ever talked about it. No one knew what it was like. It was a big deal, and that was back when I was in sixth grade.

Anybody who was coming up before that, they’re like, shut up and pay attention. Like you, you just got yelled at a lot. That’s

Evan Sanchez: Yeah.

Brent Dowlen: Yeah. You edge it with your hands. I’m sitting over here playing with putty while we record this. ’cause I have to do something with my hands for my brain to function.

Evan Sanchez: Right.

Brent Dowlen: I’ve never been diagnosed with anything and I don’t care. I [00:20:00] learned to live my life. I’m not gonna go ask them now probably, but you know, it’s, they just, we, we, that wasn’t a thing for us. They were just like. Suck it up, do better pay attention.

Evan Sanchez: Right, right, right. It wa it wasn’t, there wasn’t any understanding of the fact that these people learn differently.

Brent Dowlen: Right.

Evan Sanchez: And that they, and that they do things differently. I mean, the guy I sat with in band in high school, um, you know, was always wiggling. Like legs moving. He would talk and he’d have like five sentences try to come out of his mouth at the same time, and very smart. He’s, he is a lawyer now, so I mean, he made it work for himself, but it was just like, we just made fun of him because we didn’t understand it.

Brent Dowlen: Mm-hmm. Well, there’s a lot we don’t understand about the mine. Right. We did the same thing with PTSD,

Evan Sanchez: right.

Brent Dowlen: PT, PTSD didn’t come into existence back in 1990 [00:21:00] during Desert Storm. Right. We had a lot of veterans coming home for a long time and we called it all kinds of things and frequently we called it just gold bricking or something stupid because we didn’t understand it or didn’t want to acknowledge it.

And it got labeled a lot of things over the years. We called it Combat fatigue. We called it Shell shock. Right,

Evan Sanchez: right.

Brent Dowlen: We now know it’s PTSD. Yeah. And and Desert Storm didn’t create that. It’s always been there. We just didn’t. Right. The nineties didn’t create neurodivergency. It’s always been there.

Evan Sanchez: Exactly.

Brent Dowlen: People just didn’t understand it.

Evan Sanchez: Exactly. We, we did not understand it and we didn’t, you know, and I’ve had, you know, people who served in the military and they said, listen, I had more friends die state side than I did in Afghanistan.

Brent Dowlen: Mm-hmm.

Oh yeah.

Evan Sanchez: And because of PTSD, because of, you know, also [00:22:00] transitioning from military to civilian life is also very hard. Yeah. And, and I don’t think we, we, yeah, I think we, we, we all just need to give ourselves more grace. More understanding, and I’m speaking to, I’m pointing the finger at everybody, but I’m pointing four back at me, right?

Because I just feel like we, we live in a world where we judge ourselves, we judge others, and we compare so easily. Right? We’re, we’re in this comparison game, and so I was going to have a bumper sticker made up. Um, I actually did a post about it on, on LinkedIn, but it was, you know, less comparison and less [00:23:00] judgment equals a happier life.

’cause if we can be less judgmental with ourselves, less judgmental with other people, if we can stop comparing ourselves. You know, people with nicer cars or nicer homes or whatever it is.

Mm-hmm.

Evan Sanchez: This person has that. I don’t have this, you know, that sort of thing, which is very easy to do in American culture.

Um, I just think that, and you’ve probably heard the phrase comparison is the theft of joy.

Brent Dowlen: Oh, yeah.

Evan Sanchez: Right. So I think that’s what we need to That’s, that’s what I’m trying to learn. Is trying to be less judgmental with myself and less judgmental with other and also not comparing and it’s much easier said than done.

Brent Dowlen: Isn’t that the like tagline for Instagram as a company comparison? The For joy, that’s basically

Evan Sanchez: right [00:24:00]

Brent Dowlen: platform, right?

Evan Sanchez: Yes, exactly.

Brent Dowlen: It’s a frames and hate yourself ’cause you’re not as good as they are.

Evan Sanchez: Right. You know, I don’t have six pack abs, you know, I, I don’t think I ever did, but I definitely don now

Brent Dowlen: statistically, you more, you’re more likely to become a millionaire than you are to have six pack abs

Evan Sanchez: believe that

Brent Dowlen: legitimately that is the actual statistics is more likely there are more millionaires.

Evan Sanchez: I believe that a hundred percent. But you look at all these, all these people on Instagram and you think like that I have to, you know, I have to be like that.

Brent Dowlen: Well, yeah. That’s the beauty of airbrush filters,

Evan Sanchez: right? Yeah. You know,

Brent Dowlen: I used to follow a bodybuilder, pro bodybuilder. The guy’s a coach, he’s competed for years, has a multimillion dollar co corporate company, [00:25:00] um, theoretically, like almost a perfect physique as we would describe it.

Uh, he wasn’t like bodybuilder. Bodybuilder. He was like physique, bodybuilder. Right. So not the gigantic monsters. Right. It looked like, and he was talking about getting ready. He, he did a magazine interview and they did this photo shoot. He prepped for a week and a half to make sure that he was lean enough, dehydrated enough that

Evan Sanchez: Exactly.

Yes. All of the above,

Brent Dowlen: right? If you gotta mess with your body, that hard to be photo ready.

Evan Sanchez: Mm, no. Yeah, I mean, you don’t eat, you don’t drink before the, it’s just like you do all these things and Yeah. And that’s what we compare ourselves and you know, I’m, I’m in my mid fifties, right?

Brent Dowlen: Mm-hmm.

Evan Sanchez: So, you know, looking at Instagram and seeing, you know, 25-year-old [00:26:00] with six pack abs, who’s just like, you know, weightlifting like three, four times a week and, you know, and.

You know, I just, you, you can’t compare, I can’t compare myself to that. I’m like, wait till you become 56 and you tell me how good your knees are.

Brent Dowlen: Right? I was in the gym, so I, I used to be a personal trainer. Uh, I’ve been working out since I, I think I started working out when I was about 11. My dad started taking me to the Y and letting me weight train because I wanted weight train.

Right? Right. Years old, I wanted to lift weights and be big. I, I fell in love with it. I love lifting weights.

Evan Sanchez: Mm-hmm.

Brent Dowlen: And I was at the gym with my workout partner. I was like 38 years old at the time, I think. And this kid who couldn’t have been more than like 20, 21 at best. Right. I just finished, repping like 3 25 on bench.

Evan Sanchez: Nice.

Brent Dowlen: And he’s like, that’s, that’s, that’s pretty good, dude. When can I ask you a question? I was like, yeah, what’s up bro? [00:27:00] He’s like. What do you think you really peaked? And I was like, I’m sorry. Try that again. Well, you know, when, when were you really at your strongest? I was like, yesterday, I, I squatted five 30 yesterday.

Like I’m, I’m 38 years old, dude, I’m not broken. I’m not dead.

Evan Sanchez: Right.

Brent Dowlen: Uh, but like the, I, I finally told him, I said, you know what? Because he, he was kind of being a little, I was like, you know what? How old are you? He told me, I was like, I tell you what, you married? No. What do you do for a living? Oh, I’m, I’m just outta college.

I’m starting to do this. I tell you what, when you’ve been married for a decade, have a kid or two

Evan Sanchez: Yep.

Brent Dowlen: Have a mortgage and a full-time job. Yep. I’m still gonna be here lifting. And if you’re still here, you can ask me that question. But until you meet those criteria, because I spend [00:28:00] 60 hours a week at a desk, you don’t even get to ask me that question.

Evan Sanchez: Exactly.

Brent Dowlen: Right. I I, I took a lot of great joy in the fact that I could crush most 20 year olds in the gym.

Evan Sanchez: That’s awesome.

Brent Dowlen: It was like, wow. What do you think? Like, we pa I, I remember being young enough to think that like at, oh my god, at 35 you die. Right. That’s the next, that’s right.

Evan Sanchez: That’s,

Brent Dowlen: that’s

Evan Sanchez: an old man.

Right.

Brent Dowlen: A 40-year-old in the gym, you’re like, oh my god, dude is like a grandpa.

Evan Sanchez: Right.

Brent Dowlen: Uh, yeah, I know. Those guys always crack me up. People. It is that misunderstanding. Your brain’s not developed enough. You don’t understand. You don’t have that perspective on life.

Evan Sanchez: Exactly. Exactly. You have a limited experience at that point.

Brent Dowlen: I was like, you, you may have a six pack abs, but I could snap you in half.

Evan Sanchez: Right. I, I, I’m always like, you know, I, I did swimming for like five years, like in a master’s program.

Brent Dowlen: Oh my God. Those are [00:29:00] good athletes right there.

Evan Sanchez: And, and those guys. And those guys, they would have beer bellies.

Brent Dowlen: Mm-hmm.

Evan Sanchez: Like huge bellies.

But they would smoke me like so easily. I mean, you know, I wasn’t the greatest swimmer, but I mean, like, I, I mean. I was proud of myself that I was able to just be in the pool with them. Mm-hmm. Right. And keep up with them. You know, we’re doing four to five miles a week.

Brent Dowlen: Oh yeah.

Evan Sanchez: Which is exhausting. But they would, they would sprint past me and then, you know, you get the teenagers coming in, you know, for early morning swims and they’re smoking a solve.

But I’m just like, you come back to me in your mid fifties and see if you can still keep up.

Brent Dowlen: I had a lot of respect. My dad, when I was 11 or 12, I, he’d go to the gym, he’d take me to the y to the gym to lift because I would go in the mornings and go swim with him. [00:30:00] ’cause he’d go laps. Oh wow. And then I’d go, want to lift weights?

And he is like, you gotta go to school. So we, we’ll come back later. Right. But like all of us, my siblings were all on swim team. We, we were all swimmers and divers.

Evan Sanchez: Nice.

Brent Dowlen: And like the, the health benefits. People do not understand the strength and cardiovascular benefits of being a swimmer.

Evan Sanchez: Oh my gosh. It was, it was, it was absolutely amazing.

You know, um, the, the, the hard part was being in the pool at five 30 in the morning. That’s the hard, that’s the hard, that’s the hardest part.

Brent Dowlen: Are you still swimming?

Evan Sanchez: Um, no, I’m not. I’ve transitioned. I was, I was starting to get shoulder pain.

Brent Dowlen: Mm-hmm.

Evan Sanchez: And so now I do. Um. I try to do, um, my son has a rowing machine, so it’s still here in the house, so I use that three days a week.

I try to do yoga because I’m seeing my parents get older. Mm-hmm. And, [00:31:00] and the balance is really going. Um, so I’m a little scared of that. Um, and I’m doing yoga, so I’m doing like, you know,

Brent Dowlen: I’m, I’m a big yoga fan. I’ve, I’ve had enough injuries. I, I’m a huge fan of yoga.

Evan Sanchez: Yeah. And it’s just, you know, I did it this morning and it’s just like, you know, four or five years ago I couldn’t, I couldn’t even like, sit on the floor without being uncomfortable.

Mm-hmm. Like, you know, crisscross applesauce, couldn’t do that, you know. But, um, but I really, you know, in the, especially in the last year or so, um, after I transitioned from, from swimming, you know, I’ve been doing more, you know. Cardio weight and, and yoga and just trying to mix it up as much as possible.

But it’s stuff that I can do now that I don’t have kids in the house. Right. When, when I was, when I was in the middle of it, [00:32:00] it was so hard to get out. Especially, you know, you know, when they were under five it was basically, IM impossible.

Brent Dowlen: Keep you moving is a power secret man. My mom lives with us. Uh, my dad passed a couple years ago.

I’m sorry with this. And so she uses one of my exercise bands to help like a couple times a day she’ll break out the exercise band and squat with it and work her hips and work her knees and, uh, just keep functioning. She just has an emergency surgery. Uh mm-hmm. Well, lemme rephrase that. It wasn’t an emergency surgery.

It was the culmination of a year and a half of tests. Uh, ’cause she had a problem with the nerves around her heart firing off wrong. Oh. But she went in for surgery. Right. And they were actually slightly frustrated when they started interviewing her because they had never had someone under the age, over the age of four or five.

Who were on less medications and [00:33:00] had less previous treatment than she had.

Evan Sanchez: Did you think she was hiding something?

Brent Dowlen: Right. My, my mom’s 73 years old, she takes some natural supplements like, uh, collagen and stuff like that, right,

Evan Sanchez: right.

Brent Dowlen: That you take because your body doesn’t have enough as you get older. It depletes, uh, to help with her knees and, you know, she doesn’t want her hair fall out because, you know, she’s a lady, so she doesn’t want her hair falling out.

He takes her collagen and she takes some other stuff like that, but it’s all supplemental. There’s no medications. And they’re like, wait, you’ve never had surgery? You’re not on medications. You’re not, how are we even seeing you? I don’t know. My heart just doesn’t work. Right. So I’m have any problems anymore.

Evan Sanchez: That’s amazing.

Brent Dowlen: Be,

Evan Sanchez: that’s amazing. Like, like I, you know, they say like. I, I think I heard like your fifties is kind of like, um, the time [00:34:00] where your body’s gonna be like, how did you treat me? And it’s going to increase your medications after 50.

Brent Dowlen: Yeah. I, I’ve had a lot of threats for mine.

Evan Sanchez: Right. So, so, so it’s like 50 is kind of like, you know, we looked at all the past things that you did, and we’ve decided that you needed these medications, is kind of what your body’s doing too.

So for your mom not to be on medications is absolutely incredible.

Brent Dowlen: Oh, yeah. Yeah. So she was in a car wreck

Oh.

Brent Dowlen: Last year. Uh, yeah. I’m, I’m thrilled. My Jeep. Hey, shout out to Jeep off the highway and landed in a canal.

Evan Sanchez: Wow. Pulled

Brent Dowlen: my Jeep, but my mom walked away with bruises.

Evan Sanchez: Wow.

Brent Dowlen: Right. Uh, that’s

Evan Sanchez: huge.

Brent Dowlen: Shout out to Jeep.

Evan Sanchez: Yep.

Brent Dowlen: Huge fan of this.

Evan Sanchez: Safety. Safety.

Brent Dowlen: My mom is fine, but it was the first time in my life she’s ever been in any kind, [00:35:00] real accident like, so I’m coaching her on what to expect in the coming days. He’s never had to recover from injury before. Like that farm growth, but nothing but Nick scrapes cuts, little things like that over the years.

Some twisted anchor,

Evan Sanchez: right?

Brent Dowlen: Uh, yeah, it’s, it’s amazing what happens if you keep moving and keep active. Uh, but let me segue this back in ’cause I, we’re we, that road a long way. I got a question for you.

Evan Sanchez: Sure.

Brent Dowlen: What is your advice to dads out there? Because one of your biggest frustrations was finding out that your daughter was neurodivergent and not knowing, having all these years where you did not know.

Right. And there isn’t a perfect playbook for dads. It’s, it’s really frustrating and, and there is such a large spectrum to what neuro neurodivergent, ident ident can be and can show. Mm-hmm. So what is some advice you got for [00:36:00] dads who, you know, think their kids might be slightly different, wired differently?

Uh, as far as testing, as far as patients? What’s some advice you would share with dads looking in hindsight that maybe you wish you had known or thought of?

Evan Sanchez: So, I really wish I would’ve done, ’cause at the time I wasn’t exercising. I wasn’t doing meditation, I wasn’t doing journaling, I wasn’t doing anything to make sure that I approach things in a calm state.

I wasn’t taking care of myself at all. And it’s, I think it’s just so hard as a dad because you’re just always on the go. You’re working crazy hours, you come home, you know, there’s bedtime routines, there’s dinner, there’s, you know. 20,000 things. You know, you, you can look at your phone and [00:37:00] work’s blowing up and stuff like that, and there’s just not, and, and you’re, you know, you wake up and you’re just shot out of a cannon, right?

You have no time for yourself. And so what I really wish I would’ve done is I really wish I would’ve been more guarded with my time and maybe done meditation or done journaling. Or something like that to give me space in my day and to do something for me, even if it was like five or 10 minutes breath work, whatever it is, because the way I was showing up back then was not good.

It was not healthy. It wasn’t healthy for me. It wasn’t healthy for them. It’s, it’s like, you know, they talk about airplanes, you know, put on your own mask before he helps the other person, and I wasn’t putting on my own mask. And so I think that, and even as my kids get older, I think that that calmness [00:38:00] really helps because it makes ’em feel safe.

And I wasn’t giving my daughter, I wasn’t making my daughter feel psychologically safe. I was creating an environment where she didn’t feel safe and that. Again, it pains me, but it’s because I wasn’t working on myself. I wasn’t taking, I mean, even 5, 10, 15 minutes, you know, just to do breath work or meditate or journal or something so that I could create that space because I feel like when we’re calm, when, when it’s, it’s like water, right?

So just like, like swimming. It’s easy to go into a pool if it’s, if it’s calm and swim. But if it’s a really, you know, if you go into the ocean, it’s much rougher. It’s hard to swim in that choppy water. But we’re the ones setting the [00:39:00] water. We’re the ones deciding whether that’s calm or choppy. And I think that’s what I wish I could’ve gone back to do.

So my advice to dads would be to try to do whatever you can and, and. It’s different for everyone. Some people hate journaling. Some people hate meditation. Some people hate yoga. Some people, you know, hate running. Whatever it, you know, find your thing, figure out what it is that calms you down and makes you be that safe space for your kids.

Brent Dowlen: Nope, I get it. I, I hate journaling. I, I’m much rather go throw heavy weight around that. That’s my piece. I get out and throw around some heavy weights and the rest of the world feels right after that.

Evan Sanchez: Yep. And I think we just make better decisions when we’re not in that monkey mind. Yeah. You know, we can be when we’re, when we’re at our calm states, that’s why good ideas come to you in the shower.

[00:40:00] They, they don’t come to, you know, like brainstorming sessions at work were always so bad because it was just like all this pressure to like, you know, brainstorm and you could do it to a certain extent, but what’s that?

Brent Dowlen: Everybody in the showers, let’s go.

Evan Sanchez: That might be a little awkward for a work environment, but yes.

But yes, that’s the idea is like, you know, you gotta have that calmness in your life and you have to find out where that is.

Brent Dowlen: Ever wonder what really happens behind the mic when the lights go off and the Polish show ends? Well, that’s when the real story begins. Join us on Patreon and get access to our exclusive Patreon only podcast. Behind closed mics, fallible and unfiltered. The messy, honest truth of growing as a man, husband, father, and content creator.

No scripts, no polish, just the highs, lows and chaos of running multiple podcasts. I’m [00:41:00] up to four coaching, building a brand, working freelance as a podcast producer and digital marketer, and showing up as a husband and dad all at the same time. Plus, you get insider content from all three of my public shows.

Unique community option, opportunities, and direct interaction with me available at every level. If you love what we do and you’re the kind of person who wants to know how the sausage is made, that’s your cup of

Evan Sanchez: tea. Well, guys, and you wanna see in the back room, join us at patreon.com/the Fallible Man today.

Brent Dowlen: Now, now for all the dads listening, let me offer you this, this one gentle piece in this. For any of you over 35, you probably were not taught about the concept of psychological and emotional safety. Right? Uh, all of us over a certain age. That wasn’t something we talked [00:42:00] about growing up. That wasn’t something our parents were taught when we were growing up.

That’s not something we were brought up thinking about. It’s not, I don’t wanna call it a new thing, but it’s a. New perspective on it where we’re actually starting to honestly discuss that this is and always has been a thing and now we need to pay attention to it. ’cause we’ve seen what happens when we don’t.

So if this is a new idea to you, right. Like my kid’s safe. My kid’s safe. Uh, there’s more than physical safety. That is an adjustment for some of us. Now, this is not a free pass. You get an excuse. You don’t have to be better, right? You have to do what you can do to be better, to grow As a dad, I understand it may not be something you were brought up thinking about.

It may be a really new concept for you, but it does not mean that you can’t learn to be [00:43:00] better. Especially if you have younger kids right now, like this is something that Gen Z and Gen Alpha talk about all the time. So if you have kids in that age group, if you’re under the age of 35, and you are a little more familiar with this later, later side of the millennial group where this was actually a conversation for those of you in the older millennial group and above passed there.

I know it wasn’t a conversation. It is now and it’s something you still have time to work on, but it is a legitimate thing. Don’t blow it off because it’s a new idea. That is the knee jerk reaction. That is what our parents did. Okay. My parents were boomers. Mm-hmm. That is what my, our parents did. ’cause it was like, ah, we know how to raise kids.

Right. Um. I had the benefit of being with my dad the last few years of his life, and we [00:44:00] had some great conversations over coffee at my back porch. He’s like, yeah, we had no clue. We just made up as we went, right? Uh, he, he could very confidently say that. I was like, yeah, no, we, we did our best. That’s what we knew.

You know? Uh, I, I’m not mad ’cause my dad didn’t teach me about, teach me about finances. My dad sucked at finances, right? You can’t teach what you don’t know. But once you know it’s a thing, you can do something about it. Right. If you had taken a little time to reframe, you feel like it would’ve made a huge difference raising your kids.

Yeah,

Evan Sanchez: absolutely. A hundred percent.

Brent Dowlen: So if this is a new conversation, guys, this is for you. Listen up, like you don’t have to become all touchy Philly. Woo woo. Okay. If you’re like me and that scares the crap out of you, and you’re like, mm, no, it’s cool. You don’t have to be all touchy. Philly. Woo woo. But you can learn that you can be safe and be the safe space.

That’s your job for your [00:45:00] kids, not just physically, but mentally and emotionally too.

Because I, I know from a certain age group, they’re just going, no,

Evan Sanchez: no. Yeah, no, it make, it makes sense because, you know, gen X, we were not taught about this. We were just, we were not, this was not there, there was no safety. I mean. Uh, I was, I was always looking at sitcoms and I’m like, they’re emotionally available and they’re making them feel safe to express their emotions.

And I’m like, where’s that? In my life, I couldn’t figure out like, you know, all these sitcoms, you know, you know, they, they would make jokes and stuff like that, but they were always emotionally available and people felt safe to express their emotions. And,

Brent Dowlen: um, family ties was, you know, mass psychology for all of us.

That’s all it was. Right. Mass therapy for the masses. That’s all.

Evan Sanchez: Exactly, exactly, exactly. I was peak eating all the way, but yeah, it is, it is just, and, but I also think that this concept of psychological safety doesn’t only apply to, [00:46:00] to being a dad. It, it also applies in. All other, a lot of areas in your life.

Because the way I first learned about psychological safety was I read a business book called Creativity, which is a story of Pixar.

Brent Dowlen: Mm-hmm.

Evan Sanchez: And the guy from Pixar was having all this success and he went over to Disney and he was like, why don’t these people have success? Because Disney was at a point where they just could not get an an, you know, they owned the animated space and Pixar was eating their lunch.

Mm-hmm. And so he actually went over to Disney, saw what the problem was. It was because it was fear-based. Nobody felt safe at Pixar. Everybody felt safe to give an idea no matter what level they were. And so when I read that about psychological safety, it, it not only talked, talked to me as a dad, but it also talked to me as, you know, an employee, as a leader [00:47:00] or as a manager at work.

Because if I don’t make my employees feel psychologically safe, they’re not gonna tell me what’s going on and they’re gonna hide stuff from me. And if I’m a leader at that company, I need to know that stuff. So I think it just, it goes into a lot of areas because if. I, I’ve had bosses that don’t make me feel psychologically safe, and I’ve had bo bosses that do make me feel safe.

Guess which ones I perform better for? I mean, it’s obvious. And, and there’s one boss and I’m still friends with him. And, and he, it felt like therapy going into his office, I was like, I was like, I’m sorry Kevin. Do I owe you for the therapy session? But I felt so safe and comfortable talking to him about everything that I was seeing in the business.

I think that that’s, you know, it, it’s, it’s part of being a leader and you can be a leader at home. You can be a leader at [00:48:00] work, but the traits that I admire most in leaders are calmness and confidence. And that talks about the safety. So I just wanna throw out that, that it’s, it’s not just for, it’s not just for home.

It, it permeates everywhere in life.

Brent Dowlen: I, uh, I, I got some interesting feedback. I did an episode on my other show, one of my other shows. About how to make it where your teenagers wanna talk to you.

Evan Sanchez: Mm-hmm.

Brent Dowlen: Because I spent, like I said, 20 years working with teens in various capacities, and the entire episode was about what you can do personally to yourself to be the person that they wanna talk to.

Right? Right. It was nothing about what your team needed to do or how to talk to your teens. It was. You need to do that. They want to talk to you

Evan Sanchez: and, and how you’re showing up. Mm-hmm. And, and one [00:49:00] of the other distinctions that I’ve had in the last couple of years, that’s really been a turning point, because as my kids get older, right, they’re, they’re more adults and less kids.

I don’t have to tell them not to touch the hot stove. Anymore

Brent Dowlen: that help.

Evan Sanchez: So sometimes, but, you know, but, but for the most part, I don’t have to tell them a lot of things and they don’t wanna take my advice. Mm-hmm. And when I think about it, like, you know, it’s, I think advice is hard to take. Um, but especially for that age group, because you know, now they’re super confident.

So what I’ve started to do is I have, I’ve, I’m trying to get to the point where I’m not giving them advice, but I’m asking them open-ended questions like what or how not yes or no questions, but what or how questions. [00:50:00] Because if they say, you know, I’m having a hard time in school. I would just paraphrase it back to ’em and say, oh, you’re having a hard time in school.

How is that showing up for you? Or What can you do about that? Or what do you think your options are? Things like that that make ’em think of solutions. ’cause if they come up with the solutions and they have the buy-in. So that’s something that I’m really working on with my kids is to try not to give them advice because they’ve heard my old man stories already

and they get it. But if I ask them for, if I give them reflection questions and they have to actually think about.

Brent Dowlen: You know, if you’ve ever, uh, worked with a therapist or a psychiatrist, all that stuff that pisses you off

Evan Sanchez: Yep. That they ask.

Brent Dowlen: Right.

Evan Sanchez: How do you feel? Right. Exactly.

Brent Dowlen: Stop answering your [00:51:00] question with a question.

This is about you. So really, you know. Yeah. It’s, uh,

Evan Sanchez: yeah. So it’s been an interesting, it’s interesting to transition to that.

Brent Dowlen: My 13-year-old doesn’t always appreciate that because I, I have a habit of doing that a lot more than just the yes or no answers.

Evan Sanchez: Mm-hmm.

Brent Dowlen: Questions she’ll like,

Evan Sanchez: yeah.

Brent Dowlen: Thinking about this, like, well, what do you think about that?

Let’s, let’s, you know, dig into that sub. She’s like,

Evan Sanchez: right,

Brent Dowlen: but I asked you. I was like, yeah, but

let’s dive into that a little more.

Evan Sanchez: Exactly. But it forces them to think and come up with an answer.

Brent Dowlen: Yeah, absolutely.

Evan Sanchez: And I think that’s, that’s helpful.

Brent Dowlen: Nate.

Evan Sanchez: Ow,

Brent Dowlen: why did I just call you Nate? Apparently I’m dyslexic today because I just like read your name backwards and swapped out and I. Oh, [00:52:00] sorry guys.

It’s been, uh, I have not been sleeping well lately. I apologize now, Evan. Sorry about that.

Evan Sanchez: That’s okay, man.

Brent Dowlen: My, my brain saw your name backwards outta the corner of my eye on my notes, and I totally just, wow. I’m, I’m doing what?

Evan Sanchez: No worries. No worries.

Brent Dowlen: Evan, what is your favorite part about being a dad?

Evan Sanchez: My favorite part is just, it’s just, I don’t know where it’s gonna go. That’s, that’s what I love about it. It’s the uncertainty about it. It’s like, I don’t know, like, I don’t know what’s gonna come next and the, the, you know, like the avenues my son took, like marine science or Rubik’s Cube or badminton or stuff like that, you know, or TaeKwonDo.

I just. I never imagined that, and it is just, that’s what I really [00:53:00] enjoy is like is, is supporting them on their journeys and making sure that they feel that support. You know, badminton may not be my thing. But I can support them in, in doing that. Right. Or if my son, now my son’s into rowing, so I’m going to regattas.

Right? You support whatever their interest is. And I just think like, you could never predict what their interests are gonna be. And that’s, that’s my favorite part, is just not knowing where they’re going to go to next.

Brent Dowlen: Now, it wouldn’t be a dad show without a a, a dad joke. Do you have a dad joke for us?

Evan Sanchez: Oh, I have so many dad jokes.

In fact, my kids, um, I’m always doing puns and stuff like that, but my favorite dad joke and the one that I’m banned from saying in the house now,

Brent Dowlen: Ooh, it’s gotta good then

Evan Sanchez: [00:54:00] it’s gotta be good. So this was when I was, you know, in corporate and a guy walks into. Um, work and he’s, and he sits down on his cubicle right beside me and he is like, man, I forgot my lunch today.

I left on the counter and I said, you need a counter strategy.

That’s, that’s, that’s my favorite down joke. You would not believe how many times the word counter comes up in, in regular conversations. So, um, there’s always, so I’m not allowed to say counter strategy in my household. Um, and so I think that’s, that’s, that’s my favorite dad joke and that’s, you know, probably will be on my headstone.

Brent Dowlen: Fair enough. Evan, I’ve been looking at the sign behind you, the entire conversation. I realized we didn’t ever actually really introduce you. [00:55:00] What is new grad launchpad?

Evan Sanchez: So I’ve developed this course that actually helps parents. This is exactly what we were talking about earlier actually, that actually help parents know how to show up in a meaningful way for their adult children.

So, um, so it’s, you know, several videos, um, long and it teaches you all the things. It, it talks a lot about stuff we, we talked about in here, but it’s more in depth. And so it encompasses, you know, and change because the way you show up as a parent is really. Apparent. There you go.

Um, is really apparent. And if you’re not controlling that, or if you don’t have the resources or if there’s things that are, are going. In the background of you that you don’t know how [00:56:00] to show up for, this is what that course helps. And I offer one-on-one coaching as well. So there’s a variety of different programs from, you know, a very low ticket offer to a high ticket offer.

And that’s what I want to do because I want the, the adult children to feel empowered to find their own path. The path that we came up with, you know, especially when it comes to careers and jobs, is not the path that that is there for them today. It’s not like you go to school and you go to college and you get a good paying job and you don’t have to worry about it.

Um, so that’s what I’m really excited about is like working with parents to making sure that they’re, they’re showing up for their kids in the best way. And, um, and you know, for those people who have kids in college or people who have kids in their twenties, especially for those kids, you know, [00:57:00] the, the parents that I talk to mostly have kids in their twenties who are just floundering.

The parents are struggling too, because they don’t know how to support their kid

Brent Dowlen: guys. We’ll have all, I mean all of them. I, I have a list. I won’t screw it up like I did his name. I’ll have all Evan’s contacts down in the show notes or the podcast description, YouTube description, whatever platform you’re on with us today.

We’ll see if I can actually end this the right way, Evan, as we’re laying in this plane today. If the dad’s listening to her, nothing else, what do you wanna leave them with? What’s the most important thing you want them to hear?

Evan Sanchez: I want them to know that how they show up is so important and that calmness is so important. And to also be less judgmental with yourself. Give yourself grace and less judgment of others. [00:58:00]

Brent Dowlen: Guys, thanks for joining us today on the Dad Hatch. She Nanny’s podcast, a community of dads just navigating life’s challenges together.

Until next time, laugh, learn, and live the dad life.