Kenneth Kunken | Fatherhood Without Limits A Quadriplegic Dad Raises Triplets

Brent Dowlen: [00:00:00] Ken, every dad has that story that just you light up, like when you talk about your kids as one of the first stories you wanna tell. What is your favorite story about being a dad?

Kenneth Kunken: I guess there are a few, but, uh, let me preface my story by telling your listeners a little bit about me in order to get into this story.

Uh, I’m a quadriplegic as a result of a spinal cord injury when I was 20 years old. So as a result, I’m almost totally paralyzed and I became a dad much later in life. I was actually 54 when my children were born. Uh, and just to go a little bit more about that, uh, I’m the father of triplet, triplet boys.

Uh, I was present in the delivery room when they were born. So to tell you a story about, uh, one of my children by the name of Joey, when he was about seven or eight. Uh, I went for a walk with him out, of course, in my electric [00:01:00] wheelchair, and we walked to the local stop and shop, uh, in, uh, our town about a mile away from our house.

And while I was there in this crowded grocery store, I got very dizzy. I had problems with low blood pressure, and I became very dizzy and thought I was about to pass out. And here I am in a crowded store, uh, just with my son Joseph, who’s seven or eight years old. And Joey knew exactly what to do. He gave me a pill to raise my blood pressure, and then he lifted up my legs, uh, to keep them a little higher so they’d be more on the same level as my heart to help the blood pressure go up a bit.

Now here I’m in a crowded store. There are a lot of people crowding around. Joey didn’t panic at all. Uh, he knew exactly what to do to help me. He didn’t ask anybody for help. And I felt totally secure [00:02:00] being there with my son. ’cause I, I had confidence in him that he would know exactly what to do. And he did.

And he got me through that episode. And I think about that a lot when I’m with my children.

Brent Dowlen: Wow. What a story. A 7-year-old stepping up when his dad’s body betrayed him in the middle of the store. Most of us would’ve panicked. I mean, let’s be honest, most kids would’ve frozen. But here, calm, trust, action.

That’s not just a proud dad moment. That’s fatherhood. On another level, and this is exactly the kind of perspective that Ken brings as a father of triplets that he had in his fifties. While navigating the world is a quadriplegic. In this episode, we dive into fatherhood with no excuses and what it really takes to show up for your kids no matter what.

And speaking of showing up better, let’s take a moment to check in with our sponsors over at MyPillow. They’re helping dads everywhere every day recharge so they can face the day stronger [00:03:00] on a good night’s sleep. We’re gonna take one minute check in with my pillow, then we’ll be back with Ken Kunken.

Gentlemen, I sleep on a MyPillow. I sleep on my pillow GI of sheets. I have my PO pillow body pillows. I have MyPillow travel pillows. We have MyPillow towels. My wife even wears MyPillow slippers. I would never recommend a company that I don’t use personally. We’re proud to have Mike Lindell MyPillow sponsors of the show.

You can go to mypillow.com and use code TFM. It’s our parent company, the Fallible man. Use code TFM for up to 80% off your order and free shipping over $75. For all of our listeners, MyPillow is a proud American company that is owned by its employees and with every purchase you help keep this podcast on the air.

So thanks in advance for that. Give yourself a good night’s sleep. Support an American company and help keep us going so we can make more episodes like this. Now let’s dive back into the show.[00:04:00]

Welcome to the Dad Hash Shenanigans podcast, the unfiltered Truth about being a dad. Real dads real stories, unfiltered, candid conversations on fatherhood. I’m your host, Brent Dowlen, and today my special guest is Kenneth KunKen, welcome to the Dad Hat Shenanigans podcast.

Kenneth Kunken: Thank you very much. Thank you for having me as your guest.

Brent Dowlen: Oh, I, I’m excited. Uh, Ken, I actually am a little bit familiar with who you are. Uh, some people don’t know. I’m also a podcast producer. I work on other shows, and so I actually had the benefit of knowing who you were because I’ve edited a show that you work were on before. So when you guys contacted me, it was like, this is gonna be so much fun, because I already knew a lot about your backstory.

So I’m excited to Right. Now, Ken, you’re wearing a hat. Does that say Cornell?

Kenneth Kunken: Yes, it does.

Brent Dowlen: Okay, I I got it. I gotta hear, hear the story. What’s the dad hat?

Kenneth Kunken: Okay. Well, one of my sons, the [00:05:00] son Joey, that I mentioned before, uh, is now about to start his junior year at Cornell. But when he began his freshman year, two years ago, uh, during orientation, he was given this hat as part of his orientation.

Cornell, um, which is obviously very meaningful for me. One because my son goes there, but also because I went to Cornell, I received my undergraduate degree there as well as a master’s degree there. Uh, and in addition, that’s unfortunately where I had my spinal cord. When I was a junior there. So Cornell University has been very instrumental in my life and 50 years after I graduated from Cornell, my son Joseph, entered his freshman year there.

Brent Dowlen: Oh, that’s amazing. Uh, legacy and history with it. Now to see your son go there. That is very cool. [00:06:00]

Kenneth Kunken: In addition, I’m now on the Cornell University Council and when I went up there for our first meeting, I got very cold and the first hat that I put on to keep me warm is this Cornell hat. That was my son’s hat.

Brent Dowlen: Awesome. That is very cool. The dad’s had these great stories that people just don’t even like. It’s so much of a part of who we are. Sometimes that people don’t even realize. Obviously I don’t run around in a bowler hat all the time, mainly ’cause I, I’m afraid of messing it up. Uh, but I, I have my ball caps and I have, I have caps that I’ve had for years and every single one of them has this like, story behind it.

But my favorite ones have to do with my kids. So, uh, I, I love it. And, and that’s just cool to see a, the legacy that you create, right? You were there and now your son’s there. Ken, you said you have three boys?

Kenneth Kunken: I have triplet [00:07:00] sons. So Joseph is starting his junior year at Cornell. Mm-hmm. My son. James is starting his junior year at the State University of New York at Morrisville, and my son Timothy is beginning his junior year at Syracuse University.

So all three are in upstate New York. All three colleges are not that far from each other, so they visit each other in school. They talk on the phone all the time. They’ve gone to classes with each other, and it’s great that they’ve just remained so close.

Brent Dowlen: That’s awesome. Now, can you start to introduce yourself a little bit?

Fill us in, just for everybody listening, who is King K? And tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do, and let us catch up before we move into this.

Kenneth Kunken: Okay. Well, maybe I’d, I’d start even before my injury. I’d like to go all the way back to when I was born. I was born in [00:08:00] 1950, uh, and Brent, I don’t think you know this story, but I was born during the polio epidemic, and unfortunately, right after I was born, my mother contracted polio and she died when I was less than a month old.

So as a result, my relationship with my dad was probably even stronger than most people’s because I grew up. Uh, initially with, you know, out a mother figure to be around. We spent a lot of time with my grandparents, but obviously my father was so instrumental in every aspect of my life. Um, he remarried when I was four, but unfortunately it was not a very happy marriage.

And they divorced, um, when I was 13 or 14 years old. And then we lived just in an apartment with my father. Until I went off to college at that point, he married [00:09:00] for the third time. So I spent a lot of time alone, either with my father or with my father and older brother who’s two years older than me. So we had a particularly close relationship.

Brent Dowlen: That’s a good foundation. Um,

Kenneth Kunken: yeah. But um, to take it a little further. When I was growing up, my father was the person who taught me how to throw and hit a baseball. You know, we were all became very active in athletics, thanks to my father. That was a very important part of our life growing up. My brother, myself, you know, learned how to do these things from my father.

So when I went off to Cornell, uh, I played on their lightweight football team. And unfortunately, when I was 20 during my junior year, I had a spinal cord injury making a tackle on a kickoff. And as a result, I’m almost totally paralyzed [00:10:00] from the shoulders down. Um, and now that I’m a father. I cannot begin to imagine how difficult that must have been for my father when I was injured because the thought of anything happening to any one of my boys would just be devastating.

Brent Dowlen: I can’t, yeah, no. I hit talk about hitting the weak spot. Like you, you can do anything you want to me, my, my children are hurt there. There’s blood in the water. I can be a really nice guy. I turn really mean if, if my kids are not well for any reason. So, absolutely. Uh, I’m fortunate.

Kenneth Kunken: All three of my boys I have triplet boys, uh, have been very healthy their whole life.

And while they’ve all had bumps and bruises as all children do, uh, I’ve been very fortunate that they’re at very good health.

Brent Dowlen: Can I [00:11:00] ask, uh, what, what part of your spine did you injure?

Kenneth Kunken: I, I broke my neck at the C four five level, which is very high up at the neck. Um, most people, at least back then when I was injured in 1970, didn’t survive an injury like that.

In fact, the doctor had told my family I probably wouldn’t live through the week. And now here I am almost 55 years later. I believe that doctor has long since died. Uh, but I’m still here.

Brent Dowlen: Wow. That’s, man, God, God smiled on you like He sure did. Neck injuries are so, so complex and terrifying. I, I fractured my C five, uh, back at the beginning of 20 and, and God smiled on me.

The, the doctors could not explain why I can walk. But it, it, it was, I, I [00:12:00] still like have PTDI, and I hate to even use the term. I have PTSD flashbacks every time my neck pops right. I’ll sit with my head, head up too long or something, and my neck will pop. And for a few seconds there’s this like utter panic because I’m just afraid that.

So, God, God smiled on me big, but it is so tricky. The neck is so complex. Yes. Um, that’s, that’s a, the fact that you are very capable as far as mentally and have a positive outlook on things. I mean, it could be a lot different.

Kenneth Kunken: Well see. I was very fortunate, Brett, that I had a lot of family support. Now obviously my father was one of those people, but I’m talking about support from grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, and that made all the difference in my life and thanks to them and their help, [00:13:00] uh, I was able to go back to college after I completed my hospital stay and rehabilitation, and that’s how I was able to go back to Cornell.

Complete my undergraduate degree where I was studying industrial engineering and then remained there for a master’s degree where I got a master’s degree in education where I majored in counseling and student personnel administration. And I went to work for a couple of years as a vocational rehabilitation counselor, but as much as I enjoyed it, I decided what I really wanted to do was become a lawyer.

So I left that job, went to law school and was fortunate after law school to be hired as an assistant district attorney, where I worked for more than 40 years.

Brent Dowlen: Wow. That’s incredible. And man, I, I, I know so many people who make excuses [00:14:00] about why they can’t do this or that. Then you find someone who says, I can do this and that, and it makes all the difference in the world.

It sure does. You waited till you were 54 to have kids.

Kenneth Kunken: You know, after my injury, I was injured when I was 20. I never thought or even dreamed about ever being married or even the possibility of getting married, let alone becoming a father. That was the furthest thing from my mind. Um, but as years went on, uh, one of my aunts encouraged me, uh, my Aunt Betty, not to rule that out, to meet a woman, fall in love and eventually get married.

And I was very fortunate to have met an incredible woman named Anna. She’s sitting just to my right off screen, male, uh, and fell in love. And Anna and I got married in. [00:15:00] Uh, 2003, 2000. She just alerted me 2003 to make sure I remembered. Uh, and when we talked about getting married, Ana indicated that she wanted to have my baby.

And not just a baby, my baby. She said she wanted to see a little kunk and running around our home. Now, this really seemed impossible at the time. I had been paralyzed for more than 30 years, and I was already in my fifties. Um, well I, there was a saying in the military that I’ve always liked, I never served in the military, but I heard this statement.

The difficult, we do it once, the impossible takes a little longer. Well, we were determined to make the impossible happen and we wanted to do it sooner rather than later. So we pursued in vitro fertilization and God was surely smiling on us [00:16:00] ’cause my wife became pregnant. I was present in the delivery room on January 24th, 2025, 2005 when Honor gave birth to triplet sons, Joey, Jimmy, and Timmy.

And I could not be a happier or more proud dad than I am of my three sons.

Brent Dowlen: That’s awesome. And I, so I’ve gotta ask, right? ’cause everybody, the minute they find out you’re gonna be a dad. Offers all kinds of advice. What was the best piece of advice you were given about being a dad?

Kenneth Kunken: Basically, just be there for them.

You know, be supportive, be able to listen to them and help them in any way you can by just being present. And, you know, for me it, it was a really, um, scary experience because growing up my father [00:17:00] was active. And helping us athletically, you know, taking us out, having a catch right, throwing a ball around, you know, going to ball games.

And here I knew I could not do that with my children. So I was really hesitant about ever becoming a dad because I felt bad that I wouldn’t be able to do those things with my child or children as it turned out. Uh, and I was fortunate that people encouraged me. I could help out in other ways other than physically.

One I could provide financially, which I’ve been able to do thanks to my job, that I could be there for support, that I could be there for encouragement, and hopefully with what I’ve done with my life to help motivate and inspire them to grow up to be the best they can be. So it was good advice. I’m glad I took it and I’m as proud of that as anybody could be.[00:18:00]

That’s awesome.

Brent Dowlen: Now Ken, you faced fatherhood a later in life you had triplets. Let’s, that that idea like we were harassed is There are twins on both sides of my wife and i’s families. And so like, everybody was like, oh, you guys, you guys will probably get twins. Terrify me. Absolutely. The concept terrify me.

You became a father late in life and you had triplets,

Kenneth Kunken: right? Well, you know, my, my sister has identical twins as well. As a boy that’s older and going through in vitro is not an easy process. You know, it was very difficult, um, for us. And I thought wouldn’t, you know, both my wife and I, we each have uh, two siblings and I thought, wouldn’t it be great if we had twins and we didn’t have to go through this process again?

So I was [00:19:00] real excited. I went with her for each of her sonograms and I was really hoping for squids. And I remember going for that first sonogram and seeing the doctor, you know, move this instrument around. And seeing not just one embryo, but then seeing another one. And I am just so excited. And suddenly he moves it and there’s a third.

And I was just astounded ’cause I had never even seen triplets before. I couldn’t even imagine what it would be like to have triplets, the father of triplets. So we were just triply blessed and I, I couldn’t be more happy and thankful. That we were able to raise three sons.

Brent Dowlen: That’s, man, I, I, I was terrified of the idea of, uh, of possibly twins.

So, you know, hat’s off alone right there. I’m sure you have a whole lot of dad stories just from the fact that you have triplets, but what is, well, you know,

Kenneth Kunken: to give [00:20:00] you a story. Yeah. Uh, growing up, you know, I, I can’t feed myself, so my wife needs to feed me as well. And I remember when, uh. The boys were real small.

They were in high chairs around the table. And initially we had a nanny helping out, but we didn’t have a nanny on weekends, most weekends. And we’d sit around a table and my wife would give Joey a bite of food, then Jimmy a bite of food, then Tim, a bite of food, then daddy a bite of food. Then mommy would take a bite of food and that’s how we ate some of our meals.

So it was quite a show, just watching feeding time. And, and fitting three car seats in the back of a minivan that would still leave enough room for me to get in in my wheelchair was a real challenge as well. Finding the right car seats that we could do that in, in the right minivan. So it seemed like each thing that we were [00:21:00] doing was a challenge, getting a stroller, a triplet stroller that could fit three babies in.

I mean, everything. Became such a challenge and everywhere I went, people would come up, Marvel at the boys and turn to me and go, you must be such a proud grandfather. Everybody just assumed I was their grandfather ’cause I was so much older. So, oh well what could you do? Yes, I was very proud, but I am their father.

Brent Dowlen: Oh, wow. My wife got teased because she was so much older than her baby brother. That she frequently got mistaken as his mother when she’d carried through a story or something, which she hated it. It’s amazing how an each gap affects people’s perception of a situation. So you had your hands full for any, any dad.

We sure

Kenneth Kunken: [00:22:00] did and still do. Now they’re at three separate colleges. Uh, but yes, so, uh, but it’s such been such a wonderful challenge. I mean, it’s just changed our whole life. And in fact, we recently took a road trip all the way up to Montana with our boys to go to one of my nephew’s weddings and while we went in two separate cars, ’cause we couldn’t actually all fit with all our luggage to be away for a month.

Um. We did a road trip with our boys and did a lot of sightseeing with them, and it was just great. Absolutely great.

Brent Dowlen: Ken, in your unique situation, not only an older dad, a differently able dad, a triplet dad, there are a lot of young dads out there who are finding out they’re gonna be fathers for the first time they’re dealing with fatherhood for the first time.

That have all kinds of things just racing through their head. Will you share some of the things you’ve [00:23:00] learned about being a dad with us? Well, first of all, I would say it

Kenneth Kunken: was very scary from day one before my wife even gave birth. It was scary. Um, but you learn a lot by doing and going along. And I, I think one of the most important thing is to patients, just being patient, just being there.

Be ready and willing to listen to help out in any way, any way that you can, but just being there to hopefully help guide your children to grow up with the right values, the right character to you know, love, not only each other, but know that it’s important that they help each other and that they help other less fortunate people whenever they have the opportunity.

And in addition to be very supportive with your wife, right? I think it’s so important for you children to see that you [00:24:00] respect

Brent Dowlen: and

Kenneth Kunken: love your wife and that you’re on the same page with everything, uh, as a parent, right? That they don’t need to go to one parent, get a certain direction of things to do, and then go to another parent and be told something differently.

It’s so important to be on the same page as your wife.

Brent Dowlen: So can I ask, were your sons active in sports?

Kenneth Kunken: You know, they didn’t wanna play any team sports, but they’re all into martial arts. Yeah. So all three are martial artists. In fact, all three of them are second degree black belts in the martial art, TaeKwonDo.

And they’ve also studied Brazilian jujitsu. So, you know, we used to take them for different activities. We, you know, had them do. Intramural wrestling and intramural basketball, and we bought them for archery and bowling and roller skating, and we tried to [00:25:00] expose them. There was many different athletic activities as we could, but the one thing that stuck with that was the martial arts.

So that’s how they grew up. Uh, one, one of my sons, uh, played on his high school bowling team. It was a terrific bowler. It’s the martial arts that really stuck and they still continue to do that when they’re home from school.

Brent Dowlen: A Kondo and Brazilian jiujitsu are, are we looking to, uh, expect any future UFC fights from your sons?

Kenneth Kunken: No, fortunately they’ve also served as instructors at, at the facility for Taquan. No, but no, they, they just appreciate what goes on in it, the respect that, uh, is involved in it. Uh, the discipline and the comradery too with the people that, uh, they train with, you know, as well as the people that they’ve instructed.

It’s a wonderful, wonderful activity.

Brent Dowlen: Yeah, [00:26:00] there’s a huge amount. I, I’m, I’m actually really excited ’cause I’m seeing more, more people getting their kids into the martial arts and I think the discipline that is capable there to learn is, is so important and missing a lot of times.

Kenneth Kunken: Well, I would say the best things that we did for our boys when they were growing up is first swimming lessons to make sure they all could swim.

Secondly, the martial arts and the training that they’ve gone through, the discipline that it encourages, the self-respect, the, uh, goals that, you know, they strive to achieve to get to the next higher belt, you know, and it just constantly improve. And what’s great is all three boys do it, but they’re not competitive with each other.

They cheer each other on. You know, there’s no sibling rivalry. They’re each other’s biggest fans, and I love seeing that. [00:27:00]

Brent Dowlen: That’s very cool. Do they get to compete for the same dojo when they’re coming in?

Kenneth Kunken: Yes. Yes, they do. And they, you know, competed against oth other dojos and it’s great to, to see and to watch and to see how they’ve progressed.

Also to see how, excuse me, some of the younger students there, look up to them. ’cause our boys have also been instructors there.

Brent Dowlen: Very cool. Very cool. Do you have a dad joke for us?

Kenneth Kunken: No, actually, I, I don’t, not one particular joke comes to mind. And as I say, most people think of me as their grandfather. Uh, when I’m gone to school activities with them. Everybody thinks I’m their grandfather, but it, it’s the greatest thing in the world to just be with my boys and watch them, uh, growing up.

And what used to happen too is while I was working as a lawyer. [00:28:00] Um, you know, they would come in the afternoon when my wife would pick them up from school or nursery school and then bring them to get me. So they had to be, you know, with us at an early age and they’d see me in the office, uh, right before I’d finish my work and.

Get things done and uh, you know, initially at least one of ’em wanted to be a lawyer. Now none of ’em are pursuing that.

Intro Reel: It was one is

Kenneth Kunken: studying mechanical engineering, one is studying renewable energy and one is studying journalism. Uh, so I was a little surprised that even after seeing me in my office, none of ’em wanted to be a lawyer.

But it’s great that they see, they pick three different fields to pursue.

Brent Dowlen: Well, you know, that’s, that’s the great part about kids, right? They’re a little bit of you, a little bit of your wife, and then a whole lot of them in between, and that y’all just kind of color it as they go. I’ve, I’ve been excited, right?

My [00:29:00] 11 and 13-year-old kind of branch into their own. I, I see things like, yeah, that’s, that’s my wife, Sarah. I don’t know. That’s definitely me. And then they get off on stuff. I’m like, yep, they didn’t get that from either of us. That’s entirely them.

Kenneth Kunken: Well, for me it was incredible that they grew up sleeping in the same bedroom, doing all the same activities, going to the same, you know, elementary school, junior, middle school, high school, and they decided to go to three separate colleges without us in encouraging them one way or the other, pursuing three different majors.

It, it just constantly astounds me how that happens, and they’re doing great.

Brent Dowlen: Ken, what is the best advice you would give to a new dad? You, you shared quite a bit as far as like being patient. What, what is that golden nugget? If you had one shot that you would share a new expecting to add,

Kenneth Kunken: spending as much quality time with your children as you can.[00:30:00]

I mean, patience is part of it, but part of it is being involved in what they wanna do in their interests and encouraging them to pursue it and just being there for them. Um, you know, unfortunately when there was this pandemic going around with COD, uh, it was terrible for everybody to have to go through that.

But for us, our three boys were home with us. They at least had playmates. They always had each other. Around so they were not alone. And it got us to spend even more time with them. And you know, even these road trips, you know, we’ve, we’ve gone on a number of road trips with them. We’ve gone, you know, down to Florida with them to Washington DC to obviously this time to Montana.

Spending that type of quality time with them is one the best thing in the world to do for them, but also for you. It. [00:31:00] It’s just the quality time that I know they’ll remember for the rest of their lives ’cause of spending this time with us and with each other together.

Brent Dowlen: It’s interesting you bring up a very, I feel like it’s.

Being overlooked with a lot of younger families these days. I grew up, all the vacations we took, we, we jumped in the suburban and we drove. I, I remember driving across the country more like so many times in my youth growing up because that’s the way we did a vacations. There were five or six of us and we jumped in the vehicle and we drove 12 hours, 14 hours, one direction, and then another 10 hours the next day or whatever.

I don’t see that as often with a lot of young families. We’re very digital these days. We have a lot of technology. We see a lot of kids on tablets. Do you feel like that made a huge difference in connecting with your kids? [00:32:00]

Kenneth Kunken: Absolutely. Absolutely. Adding to me, it’s wonderful. Now they’re 20 years old. They still enjoy spending time with us, as well as with their brothers and doing things together.

And I think that makes so much of a difference. Um, you know, they, uh, they’re very proud of the fact that they’re triplets. They’re proud of the fact that they have a mother who’s from Poland, an immigrant, she’s a US citizen, but they’re very proud of the fact of their Polish heritage. They’re proud of the fact that their father’s a quadriplegic.

And what I’ve done with my life, um, they are wonderful dealing with other individuals who have disabilities. They grew up not just around me, but I would bring them to where I used to work as a rehabilitation counselor. So they’re very used to being with people with different types of abilities and [00:33:00] disabilities, and they’re very comfortable with everyone.

That they meet. I might add that my wife is Catholic and I am Jewish. So my boys grew up respecting two different religions and observing the holidays for both religions. Um, so, you know, they’ve grown up with this wealth of, uh, a background that is so diverse and different than most people, and I think that’s helped them a lot in their maturity and helped them in dealing with others.

And I think, you know, it brings me back to when I hear people talking about DEI, diversity, equity, and inclusion. And for some reason, some people have a negative opinion of that. I don’t fully understand that. I feel that so many people have benefited by diversity, equity, and inclusion, and I think my children are perfect examples of that, how they’ve [00:34:00] benefited.

By having a father and a mother who brings such different backgrounds into their life and such different experiences, having a father who’s a quadriplegic, a mother who was an immigrant, different religions, the, you know, the different interests. Um, I’ve written a book about my life called I Dream of Things That Never Were.

The Ken Kin story and it was great ’cause my boys got to read it and learn more about me than I shared with them as they were growing up. And they learned not only things about me, but about how active and involved our family was and helping me all these years. And I think that’s helped them become more loving and more appreciative of the large extended family that we have.

And I believe family is so important to everyone. Um, so I, I think it’s really [00:35:00] significant.

Brent Dowlen: I think, uh, people bristle with the idea of DEI because the concept of it has been bastardized is taken us from judging in person based on their character, the content of their character, to based on a single ratio.

We go, oh. They’re Jewish or Oh, she’s a woman, or, oh, he’s a black man, and we take away the context of their character. Are their abilities, are their skills and say, no, you’re, I think that’s why it’s become such negative opinion. I live in a highly,

Kenneth Kunken: if I may respond to that at the DA’s office, when you’d leave your job, we’d go through what they call an exit interview.

Mm-hmm. Where you tell the personnel director what you. Like best about the job and what you thought could be improved about the job. Mm-hmm. And I was told on a number of occasions by the [00:36:00] person doing those interviews that a number of the assistant district attorneys have said the best part of their job was meeting, working with, and getting to know me.

Now, I don’t say that to Bo or brag Brent, I’m saying that ’cause what they were referring to is meeting, working with on a daily basis. Somebody who is a quadriplegic, somebody with a significant disability because unless they had a close relative with a disability, most people never come in daily contact with someone with a disability, and they seemed to have felt that it inspired and motivated them.

To be better workers, work harder and be better people because they had the opportunity to be exposed to somebody they wouldn’t normally be exposed to. Um, I also received award from the court officers Association. Where I worked as the outstanding assistant district attorney one [00:37:00] year, and the reason why I was given that award from the court offices, I believe was because of the effect my work in in the courts with them had a positive effect on them and other court personnel.

’cause these are people that weren’t even in the district attorney’s office. So I believe what people don’t appreciate enough. Is that DEI doesn’t just help any one individual person, it helps everybody that comes in contact with that person, uh, whether it be through schooling or whether it be on the work site or just in recreation.

Uh, it makes a big, big difference when people are exposed to people that may be different than them. Uh, and. Everybody learns a lot by that, and that’s a very positive thing,

Brent Dowlen: and I wouldn’t disagree with you. Like I said, I think it’s when we stop and [00:38:00] go, we’re filling a quota because we have to have this.

You were a qualified, capable lawyer who earned your degree. You were qualified for the job, right? And the differences in you as an individual brought value as well. But it wasn’t, we’re going to hire you only because of this and you’re not actually qualified for the job. And I think that’s, no. I

Kenneth Kunken: might add Brent, that, um, I was promoted a number of times in my job as an assistant district attorney mm-hmm.

Where I eventually became one of the Deputy Bureau chiefs. And I was in a position where I was helping supervise more than 25 other assistant district attorneys. But if I may go back before I went to law school. When I was looking for my first job, uh, as a vocational rehabilitation counselor, um, I had already gotten two master’s degrees.

One from Cornell, [00:39:00] one from Columbia. So here I had an undergraduate degree from Cornell, a master’s degree from Cornell, a master’s degree from Columbia, three prestigious Ivy League degrees, two master’s degrees, and no one would hire me. I looked for a job for a year in the 1970s, in the mid 1970s, and back then everyone seemed to feel I was just too disabled to work despite the fact that all I had accomplished and my educational background.

Now, I might add that once I was hired, um, me, an award two while I was working there, and in fact, when I finally left the job to go to law school. They not only hired a full-time counselor replace me, they had to divide additional duties I was doing between two other employees. And I think that just goes to show that when you are more receptive to [00:40:00] giving individuals a chance who may be a little different than you, everybody benefits.

And I’m not saying how hire somebody who’s not qualified for the job. I’m saying take a serious look at that individual’s qualifications and because they may do a job a little differently than you are accustomed to having it done doesn’t mean they’re not gonna do it just as well, if not better than somebody does it.

Brent Dowlen: And I would agree with you a hundred percent. Like I said, I think that is where it sours is when people hire. Certain individuals to fill a quota instead of are these people actually qualified to do this job? I’ve never worked with anybody in a job that was qualified to do the job. That wasn’t, didn’t bring even more than that to the job, right?

It’s when we start saying, this is the only thing that matters, as opposed to, are you qualified to do this? And I think that’s why it’s left a bad taste in [00:41:00] people’s mouth is when they bastardize the term. Right. It’s not about who’s the best qualified anymore. It’s about filling quotas, and I think that’s where it gets the bad spin,

Kenneth Kunken: right?

I, I’ve never advocated hiring somebody who’s not qualified or admitting somebody to a certain college who’s not qualified to be there. I’m suggesting you look at everything involved in that person’s background and qualifications. Then make a determination.

Brent Dowlen: Oh, I agree a hundred percent. Now Ken, if people want to connect with you deeper, where’s the best place to connect with you?

Kenneth Kunken: They can go to my website, which is ken conan.com. Uh, and I think they can learn a lot more about me than we’ve covered. Uh, they could learn where they could purchase my book if they’re interested. My book is out not only a [00:42:00] hardcover, but in a Kindle version as well as an audio version, and I might add that for the audio version.

One of my sons, Timothy actually did the recording. We went into one of our large closets, set it up as like a little recording studio, and he actually controlled the recording. Uh, I narrated it. He did the recording for it.

Brent Dowlen: That’s awesome. That’s, you got to work on it together. That’s right. Those, those are memories that last for a lifetime as well.

It’s when you get to collaborate with your kids on things. Absolutely. It’s the best. Ken, if our listeners got nothing else outta the conversation, and there’s a lot here to unpack, what is the most important thing you want them to hear today?

Kenneth Kunken: To treat everybody as people, to give them all the proper respect that everybody deserves in life.

Uh, you know, whether they [00:43:00] be, have the same views and feelings and religion and background as you have, or somebody who’s very different. You know, learn to respect everybody you come in contact with. Have the patience to deal with somebody who may need a little more time. To verbalize who they are and what they do and what they want in life.

And don’t rule out the possibility that somebody who may have a disability could not become a good husband, father, you know, family member who just may be different than you and do things a little differently. Um, and I think my children have benefited by the fact that they’ve grown up in a household.

Uh, where, you know, they have parents that are so uniquely different than other parents that they’ve been exposed to. I think that’s helped them become better [00:44:00] people. Uh, and it’s certainly improved my life to become a father. It, it’s changed every day of my life. How I wake up in the morning and look at the world, it’s made me a better person.

Brent Dowlen: I love it. You have this great background with a father who is engaged, who is active in your life, who is there for you, and played such a huge role, and now you’ve gotten to do that for your sons and been a father to them and help them get started on their lives. Are they dead to anybody? Are their grandkids in the future?

Kenneth Kunken: Uh, right now, you know, neither one, none of my three has a serious girlfriend. But is it in the future? I expect it is. I’m looking forward to it. You know, I grew up being particularly close with my grandparents. Uh, and when you think of, uh, a dad as somebody you looked to for inspiration, I had grandfathers that I looked to for inspiration and [00:45:00] motivation, and I trust that, you know, my kids will not only look at that, but someday, hopefully their kids.

We’ll look forward to spending time with their grandparents.

Brent Dowlen: Ken, thank you for being on the show today and hanging out with us guys. Thanks for joining us today on the Dad Hatch Shenanigans podcast. A community of dads just navigating life’s challenges together. Until next time, laugh, learn and live the dad life.

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