Alex R. Dane: Navigating Divorce as a Dad Strategies for Staying Present

Alex R. Dane: [00:00:00] Seeing the boys at such an early age learn to fall and get back up. Watching these boys go through that at such a young age and conquering their fears and dropping it up, two foot, four foot, six foot, eight foot ramps. I remember a moment where I thought, I have this infinite strength because I’m fighting for my family.

Don’t get in the way of your kids is fun. by having expectations on it, if you let them take the lead a little bit sometimes. I teach how to play again. My best piece of advice for dads is.

 

Brent Dowlen: Alex, every dad has that story that just lights ’em up that they love to talk about with their kids. What is your favorite dad story?

Alex R. Dane: Yeah. I, I don’t know. There’s so many different stories. When I, when I think about it, kind of the biggest thing in their life. I got a, a 4-year-old and a 6-year-old. The four year old’s, my son, six year olds a stepson.

We got another girl coming on the way in February. But they, I made the [00:01:00] mistake of showing them a skateboarding video. I never grew up skateboarding, but we were just watching them and, you know, as, as boys will do. And, uh, they started talking about it so much that I bought them skateboards. And, uh, I didn’t realize for myself how dangerous just standing on it is when you’re 44.

But the long process for them learning, uh, like I’ve done multiple different sports before, but skateboarding’s really hard. But. They kind of really liked it. They liked the graphics on the boards and they, they kept going at it. And then I built them a, a mini ramp in the garage and they started gonna skate parks this summer.

And some of the best memories are watching kind of their, how they interact with each other. Their temperaments are slightly, slightly different. There’s a lot of similarities, but they’re slightly different. But seeing the boys at such an early age learn to fall and get back up, they wear full pads and everything, but, and then [00:02:00] watching them do things that for me, for me to drop in on a two foot ramp especially the first time is it might as well be, you know, parachuting out of an airplane for how, how the pure terror that I felt and watching these boys go through that at such a young age and conquering their fears and dropping it up, two foot, four foot, six foot, eight foot ramps, and having the memory that’s.

Vividly in my mind of Arthur saying, and then Gordon saying and it was, both of them said it the same way. They said I think I can drop in on this, this ramp. And then looking at the ramp, trying to hold in my fear when they do it, because I envision how hard falling is for when I fall, not when they fall and seeing Arthur, and then Gordon dropping down those six foot and eight-foot ramps.

I mean, that was kind of a visceral, visceral, just moment of pride at such an early age for them and, and [00:03:00] you know, some of my favorite memories, but they’re also recent memories, so there’s probably a bit of a bias to that.

Brent Dowlen: Nothing wrong with that, man. It’s one of those things, right? Your, your stories change over the years.

I have some, some stories from when my girls are really young, but they’re always, kids are always doing something. They’re always learning something new. They’re always new experiences and, and you just light up. If you enjoy being a dad at all, you just light up watching the girl, your kids, I have girls, but watching your boys and girls grow up and try new things and new, new things, you’re like so good.

And you just like have this storehouse of stories that you build up. And then as they get older, you start to have that one or two favorite. I, I still like have the one or two this, like when they were really little that I like throw out there to embarrass them in front of their friends and stuff like that.

You know, the, the stories you just, one day when some dude is walking down the aisle with [00:04:00] my daughter, I will tell at her wedding just for fun, you know,

Alex R. Dane: you just pull it outta your back pocket.

Brent Dowlen: Right? Yeah. This cell, I remember her, so, no, that’s a great, like, I, I sympathize, my, my oldest daughter a couple years ago decided she wanted to try skate skateboarding.

Mm-hmm. So we got her skateboard. Right. I used to skateboard,

Alex R. Dane: used to,

Brent Dowlen: I’m 45. I don’t skateboard anymore. I’ve broken far too many bones over the years.

Alex R. Dane: Yeah.

Brent Dowlen: And, uh, like just teaching her how to stand on it, I’m like, this is gonna end so badly if I get on something that rolls.

Alex R. Dane: Well, you know what it’s about then when you first start standing on the board is dangerous.

You can end up just flat on your back if you’re in your forties for sure. Oh yeah. But that when they, because you’ll know what I’m talking about. Then when they ollie and when they get their first ollie when they rock to fakey and, and drop in for the first time. Yeah. That’s, [00:05:00] that’s a big deal.

Brent Dowlen: They’re huge memories.

And the boys will take them forever with them.

Alex R. Dane: Yeah. Is there a difference, uh, y you know, because I’m coming into this now, girl Dad, do you think versus, versus Boy Dad,

Brent Dowlen: there are some differences in how you feel about it? I had the privilege of one of my former coworkers. I, I was in his life. We worked together at two different locations in the same profession over the years.

And I got to see him go from Carefree College kid to meeting a girl He liked to marriage to their kids, right? Their first kids. And it was a fun transformation. But when he had his first son, like he, it was so exciting to watch and, and to watch this kid who used to like, steer away from us old guys talking about our kids, right?

To being excited and asking questions about, you know, fatherhood. [00:06:00] I’ll never forget the day I walked into work and I mean, he looks sick. I’m like, bro, are you okay? He’s like, mm-hmm. You sleep at night? I’m like, what do you mean? He’s my wife’s pregnant again. I was like, congratulations, man. That’s awesome.

He’s like, it’s, it’s, I said, oh, it’s a girl. I, and I laughed so hard. I was like, the whole world just changed for you, didn’t it? Mm-hmm. Because you’re much more protective with girls. Most, and I won’t say all dads, but 95% of dads are more protective about girls. It vividly changes the way you look at women and the way you look at men looking at women.

Alex R. Dane: Yeah. I’m excited for that, that growth. And I, you know, I can identify with some of those thoughts, even though we’re still a few months away from, from, uh, we don’t have a name yet, but from her being born. But you remember a moment where I was like. I, her mom looks and I’m like, oh, oh, she’s gonna be a good looking girl.[00:07:00]

I’m glad she has, uh, two older brothers, you know, to

is different for, for their experience, I’m sure. But growth, growth work for,

Brent Dowlen: it’s, there’s a lot of excitement. Like, my girls are rough and tumble. Their daddy’s girls are I teased while you and I talked a little bit earlier in between, I, I, I gave my daughter some grief and she turned around and punched me square in the shoulder just like they’re my daughters.

It’s, it’s very obvious. And you can do that, right. Some, some girls are pretty and pink and wanna play Barbies. My daughter, I taught her how to punch at like nine. Hung a punching bag from their swing set. Got her bag gloves.

Alex R. Dane: Yeah. Yeah.

Brent Dowlen: She’s the one that if they’re out with her friends, she’s the one who’s gonna handle any trouble.

I guarantee it. Yeah. And so like we, and we go hiking and fishing and I do everything with her that I would with a boy. [00:08:00] Yeah. And she loves it. And my youngest daughter’s only a couple steps behind her on that kind of stuff. She’s not quite as rough and tumble as the oldest, but, so it’s, it’s later when things start to really start to differ, uh, they, they respond.

Their brain works different than a boys to how you talk. Mm-hmm. What you say. So, you know, the same red flags that go off when you talk to your spouse or your partner or whatever. Right. When you’re like, this is what came to mind. This is what I thought about saying, this is what I actually said. Right.

’cause you know, they’re gonna hear it very differently. So you have it, it happens with your daughters too. Yeah. This is what I said, this is what they heard. This is what they imagined they heard, this is how they translated what they heard. So like everything you had said has seven different meanings.

Alex R. Dane: Yeah. You

Brent Dowlen: gotta figure out which one they responded to sometimes.

Alex R. Dane: Yeah.

Brent Dowlen: Like with any female. So I, and I’m, I’m gonna have some [00:09:00] guys going. Yep. And I’m gonna have other guys going. You’re a misogynist bastard. Yeah. It’s just the truth about our way, our brain’s working differently.

Alex R. Dane: Yeah, it’s true. It’s, and it’s true, it’s true for everything.

I grew up with four sisters, which might be my only saving grace. And so I know that will help that, that, you know, I have to code switch kind of when I’m, when I’m talking in different areas. But it’s also, you know, you have me thinking of these memories with my kiddos that I already have and thinking about this one on the way.

And I think that’s a lot about, if I can. About the beginning of my book was about, you know, I could lost all this. I could have not been in their, in their lives or severely restricted with how much I was in their lives, you know, going through this separation process. I like to assume that wasn’t the end goal that, uh, my ex was going for, but it was [00:10:00] just a strategy she was trying to use at the beginning for negotiating through legal battles.

But when I think about these moments of joy and how much of, you know, how important it is for a father to be in their kiddo’s life. Mm-hmm. And, you know, boys, you know, we have a girl and that’s with with, uh, my new relationship. We’re engaged. But which, you know, in some ways I think it’s, it’s gonna be neat to have, uh, a kiddo without kind of those legal complications.

Office started as well. But if I hadn’t, uh, been as strategic as I, as I was, and if I hadn’t, you know, brought the legal fight, not a physical or a verbal fight that I did in order to protect my ability to be a father through the custody battles and family court, you know, we might be talking about something completely different.

If, if, you know, I might not be on this podcast then you know, and it’s a [00:11:00] bit humbling to kind of think about all that.

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So go to mypillow.com, use co tfm to get discounts on. Over 200 products, [00:12:00] guys. It’s a win-win win for all of us. Let’s get back to the show.

Welcome to the Dad Hatch Shenanigans podcast, the unfiltered truth about being a dad. Real dads real stories, unfiltered, candid conversations on fatherhood. I’m your host, Brent Daish Day. My special guest is Alex Dane. Alex, welcome to the dad hat shes podcast.

Alex R. Dane: Thank you so much for having me,

Brent Dowlen: Alex. I, I gotta ask, you know, it’s, it’s not the dad hat podcast if we don’t talk about the dad hat.

So tell us about the hat you chose to wear today for the show.

Alex R. Dane: Yeah, so I, I spent some time thinking about it and this is, uh, this is my running hat, but it’s, uh, it’s a, I dunno if I pronounce it right, but it’s Shelly. Uh, but this hat specifically bond, it has two meanings to me. One, I wore it through a series of three ultra marathons, and I think both kinda [00:13:00] life ultra marathon could be a metaphor for life parenting as well as, uh, as legal battles in that you need to be very consistent and go for the long haul.

But as well, a a lot of it’s about kind of the internal monologue that’s going on along the way and emotional regulation to get you to the end. I mean, there’s no end really, but

Yeah. And this hat came along with me on, on hundred hundred mile races over over mountains.

Brent Dowlen: You are a sick man. I’m just, sorry, I’m running. If I’m running, somebody is shooting at me. I, I never understood runners.

Alex R. Dane: Yeah.

Brent Dowlen: Gimme heavy things to move or whatever, but, oh god, no. I’ve never understood people who actually like to run.

Alex R. Dane: If you, if you skateboarder at all, one similarity I noticed for it’s, you know, the love with, uh, [00:14:00] with, uh, the possibility or sometimes getting hurt because alive and well in both those sports for sure.

Brent Dowlen: I, I’m big into, uh, like strongman type sports. Oh wow. It’s always pushing that. Yeah. Weight. Can I I, I broke my neck on a 600 pound carry.

Alex R. Dane: Yeah. Yeah. That’s crazy. Were you, how long were you off for?

Brent Dowlen: That was, that was the beginning of January, 2020. So that, that was a, a rough year, right, because we rolled right into the dreaded Rona Uh, yeah, while I was down with a neck brace, but I had a neck brace on for three months.

Alex R. Dane: Yeah. Yeah.

Brent Dowlen: Which was horrible because I had to sleep upright, so I had to sleep in my guest bed with a mount pillow so I could sleep upright with the neck brace on.

Yeah. So I had to sleep apart from my wife for almost three months and I had to sleep upright and I, I turned like, you know what? [00:15:00] God smiled on me bro. ’cause I fractured my C five. If I had broken my C five, I had met guy who was through broken C fives who survived. Most of ’em are wheelchairs, partially paralyzed on one side.

And that was the best outcome. The doctor said if the bone moved at all, best outcome, motorized wheelchair with use of being able to breathe on my own and the use of one side of my body. So, yeah. Got smiled on me. Went back to weight lifting. Uh, you

Alex R. Dane: did go

Brent Dowlen: back? Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. That took a while. I had to ease back into it.

Uh, there was definitely some PTSD from it.

Alex R. Dane: Yeah.

Brent Dowlen: First time I got out, back up to 400 pounds on my shoulders on, I was doing squats and I got to the bottom of the squat and just had a complete, like, I, I don’t know, the episode is the right term. Like I managed to get back up with it and rack it and my wife found [00:16:00] me like just curled up against the wall shaking.

And it was my brain going, Hey, hey, hey, remember the last time you had this much weight on your shoulders? Like it didn’t end well for you, you know? Uh, so it took a while to work through that. Not only did I have to come back physically, but I had to work back through of No, this is okay. This was so, and that was a freak accident.

But yeah. So glutton for punishment, I understand, but road running, I don’t.

Alex R. Dane: Sometimes we pay a heavy price for the getting the strength of resilience.

Brent Dowlen: Mm-hmm. Now, I, I have a friend who likes to run and he, man, he loves it. Like, he gets out there and that’s where he gets clarity and like, he, he thrives in it. And I was like,

Alex R. Dane: it is, it’s weird. There’s a lot of weird culture to it, for sure. But I think, you know, I’ve not strong man, I’ve lifted some weights over my life as well, and [00:17:00] there are some similarities. Slightly different feeling, but you’re definitely, you know, chasing that gain through pain to use the, the eighties version of weightlifting

Brent Dowlen: terms.

Well, there are a lot of people who think I’m weird for wanting to lift the weights. I do. So, you know, it’s, I’m, I’m sure his perspective. There are a lot of people who are like, why would you do that? My father asked me, he’s like. Okay. I’m, I’m amazed that you can lift that much weight, but why would you ever want to, it never even crossed my mind to wanna move that kind of weight.

I’m like,

Alex R. Dane: oh, really?

Brent Dowlen: I can

Alex R. Dane: see that. For sure. For sure.

Brent Dowlen: So

Alex R. Dane: what was your go to deadlift squat?

Brent Dowlen: Oh, no. I, I, I, I love, I’m one of the idiots who like, loves squats. I squat two to three times. Yeah,

Alex R. Dane: yeah. Yeah. I,

Brent Dowlen: I love squats. I love deadlifts. Yeah. I don’t like go muscle. I’ve never understood bodybuilders.

Alex R. Dane: Yeah.

Brent Dowlen: I wanna be as stupidly strong as possible. So, yeah. Heavy squats, heavy deadlifts. But like, I’ve got a whole setup in my backyard. I got, I’ve got a [00:18:00] yoke in my backyard and four sizes of tires and log bars and kegs and like, I, I’ve got a full setup in my backyard.

Alex R. Dane: Yeah. But it, it all does translate into parenting because I think, well, one of the things.

There was, I mean, there’s gender differences in there is not, but one of them is around play and sports and play intertwined in my mind anyways. So to be able to run with my kiddos down a trail, we talking, running or to a skate park with them when I’m 44 and, uh, kick around a little bit. Right. You know, I think that that is, uh, God’s gift to me and, and those are things that I’m grateful for that I think about regularly, especially after doing it.

I make them little videos of their kind of sessions and uh, you know, so hopefully we have some memories later when they’re teens and, uh, and they’re giving me a little bit more guff, [00:19:00] but I can go back to those videos at least and remember,

Brent Dowlen: you know, those are great videos for you.

Alex R. Dane: Yeah.

Brent Dowlen: Those will be such great videos for you guys as your kids mature and grow up.

The fact that you are out there doing that with them as a father is just awesome.

Alex R. Dane: Yeah.

Brent Dowlen: Bravo brother.

Alex R. Dane: It feels good. I feel like, I feel privileged that I’m able to able to do that. You know, because I think not everyone is like, if you, if you broke your c5, then you know, you wouldn’t be able to mm-hmm.

Interact with your kiddos in the same way. I’m sure you’d still be a good dad, but it would be, you’d have to kind of figure out different ways. So I think, you know, in those ways, that’s where I see life can be pretty beautiful, that we’re still able to do that. One one point you’re talking about, about thinking about what you’re saying, thinking about, you know, what the other, how the other person’s gonna interpret it and what your intent is versus how it’s heard.

You know, I think that applies to all people [00:20:00] and it’s, it’s one of the pieces that does end up in family court is you have to really think about that. Whether it’s kind of, you know, your relationship with. Own lawyer, the kind of opposing counsel or the judge is. I wrote a whole chapter about that and it does apply.

It’s funny how things apply to like every area of life, but about you really need to be managing the perception of everything that’s going on for you. It’s the same with kiddos as well. If you’re kind of, if I’m going around kind of grumpy every day, what’s their interpretation? You know what I mean? In my internal head, I might be thinking, oh, I didn’t sleep last night, or, or, you know, work is so tough right now, but their perception is he is grumpy because I did something wrong, maybe, or hard to tell.

You know what I mean? And so I think that there’s a lot of importance to kind of perception, uh, you know, around, [00:21:00] in all our interactions. Definitely with my partner too. There’s no quicker way to an argument than a misunderstanding or, or usually a miscommunication on my part.

Brent Dowlen: One of the dads we had on the show said, uh, you’re not the father.

You think you are. You’re not the father you want to be. You are the father, your children say you are.

Alex R. Dane: Hmm.

Brent Dowlen: Uh, yeah, that’s deep, right? That, that, that really hit me. Now, Alex, we, we’ve touched on it a little bit. You’ve mentioned court once or twice, so tell us who you are, what you do. Let’s, let’s get some clarity for the rest of the audience before we keep going.

Alex R. Dane: Yeah. So I mean, Alex, we, we kind of talked about before, Alex is a light pseudonym because I wrote a book on, uh, on, uh, you know, winning your divorce. And by winning, I mean how to get back to the life that you want, because really an attitude of trying to win is counter counterproductive to the whole process.

But I’m someone who found [00:22:00] myself in a situation where I had to make the biggest decisions in my life with the least amount of brain power. And the most amount of emotions going on when I ended up in a custody battle with not my current relationship obviously, but uh, with my ex. And I remember sitting there and I’m like, I don’t understand any of this system, any of this process that’s going on right now.

And luckily I spoke to one person who said to be strategic, he’s actually, he’s kind of in this space too, as the advocate. I think it’s Jude Sand or something like that. And he said, be strategic. And so, I mean, I took that literally, I’ve, uh, you know, I’m in healthcare but also have a business background.

So I made a PowerPoint of my strategy so I could show to my lawyer of how we’re gonna do this. But when I was through the process, I translated everything I learned into a book that I think is a tactical guide. [00:23:00] As well as an internal guide to kind of get through the whole process so that, uh, you know, when, if you find yourself in a, in a custody battle, that you can get to the end and, and find the life that you want again.

Brent Dowlen: Okay. I, I wanted to clarify. You, you’ve referenced the books once or twice, like, oh, we should, we should say you, you’ve written the book, so that makes more sense to people, you know, can’t, can’t assume they’ve read your bio yet. We’ll, we’ll have, no, I thought I typed up the book.

I, I had a book in my mind. No, a Alex has actually written a book, so we’ll have a link for you guys on that if you’re interested in following farther into that.

Alex R. Dane: Yeah. And if you’re, I mean, if the book’s a bit too much too, you can follow my, it’s uh, if I do a little plug Yeah. How to Win Your com and the book is re beginning pretty soon, but it’s, uh, www to win your [00:24:00] com And and, uh, you know, it’s something, you read it, take what you want out of it and leave the rest behind and uh, we’ll go there.

But the thing that I love about being on this show is that it’s actually I can feel that it’s another phase in my life where, you know, I’m getting far enough past the whole process that it’s one of those kind of periods in life again, where it’s, these are the good times and I know it’s the good times because my kids are young enough that, I dunno, there’s no, because we don’t have the big challenges yet.

That might happen later. Maybe they won’t, but I suspect there will be something or other. I’m distanced enough from that whole court process that start to fade into memory and just generating all these, these moments. Because I think, I think there’s only certain times in our life where it’s the good times, but we know it’s the good times.

’cause there’s a lot of times when I think [00:25:00] back and I’m like, oh, those are the good times, and I didn’t notice it while I was going through it. But yeah, I was just pondering that while we were going forward. Does does that make any sense or am I just speaking

Brent Dowlen: there? There’s a beautiful fact that hindsight right, brings a lot of clarity.

There is a lot of things in life where when you’re in the midst of it, you, you really can’t see with the clarity, you become very tunnel visioned. Going through a divorce is definitely one of those times where you’re, you’re just trying to survive and make sure that you have your children. Or that you’re going to be in their lives regularly.

And you know, you’re trying to negotiate all that and figure out all that. And it’s like you could have a great experience with your kids during that time. It’s not what you’re going to see at the time.

Alex R. Dane: Mm-hmm.

Brent Dowlen: Trying to tread water, right? You’re trying to survive, you’re trying to make sure that your kids are in the best position possible period, that you’re still in their lives.

[00:26:00] And I don’t know if the court systems in Canada are like the court systems in the US but quite regularly fathers get shafted pretty hard in the US as far as parental rights and time with their kids. So you know, now that you’re far enough through that, you actually can start to look and go, man, these are some great moments.

And actually enjoy those moments of being a father. Enjoy those moments and see them for what they are. It’s a huge, huge step forward. And you’re gonna be able to look back on this and see some great times.

Alex R. Dane: Yeah. Yeah. I think. I think the court systems, I suspect it’s pretty similar. And one way, you know, although, although there is some truth to what you’re saying, I, I, you know, one process along the way, there’s a couple things that I stole from other people.

One is, uh, and I’m, I’m gonna butcher this, but that, uh, stoke quote where the problem is the way. [00:27:00] And so very early on I saw, okay, I’m going into these situations and like we were talking about earlier, I have to worry about this perception. How are people seeing me? And I said, it’s all seen because it is such short interactions, even if you have a long court date, it’s a short interaction really compared to the gravity of everything.

I’m like, they’re seeing me through a lens. That is the stereotypical vision that the world has of it does become gendered. And I do think it’s kind of both sides because I do, I can see the other side too, because you see other court cases. I saw my, my ex and that, and I’m like, the court system sees them through a lens as well.

And so there’s pluses and minuses. I do think it’s slightly balanced against that as well through the whole system, like you’re saying. But I kind of saw early on that although I need anger through this process for energy and to be able to kind of fight when I needed to fight, when everything feels hopeless, that’s where you really need anger to kind of push you through.

And that singleness of [00:28:00] purpose, which we’re very lucky as parents because we have that purpose, which is our children. Another saying that kind of stuck with me was that Albert Kao one, which is, uh, in my darkest winter, I found my everlasting summer, which I know I butchered as well, but at the darkest point, when I reached my lowest, everything felt hopeless, even though it probably wasn’t.

I remember a moment where I thought, I have this infinite strength because I’m fighting for my family. And then seeing kind of the stereotypes, I’m like, okay, this is an unfair system. And now that I understand it’s an unfair system and I can accept that, then I change my strategy knowing that I’m working within these perceptions.

And I talk a lot about that, is managing the perception of the judge, of the different judges because you’ll, you have multiple court appearances your own lawyer, other lawyers to kind of get through this [00:29:00] whole process. And then both with, you know, understanding that, uh, the level of strength that it actually had and using those kind of perceptions to my advantage, I think helped a lot to get through the whole process.

If that’s too technical, I apologize again, and now I’m being Canadian. Apologize. Before, before, uh, before anything happened. I was gonna

Brent Dowlen: leave it alone, man. I wasn’t even gonna say I, I have too many Canadian friends to, to tease too hard. So

Alex R. Dane: you’re not too far away in Washington?

Brent Dowlen: No. And I, I have several friends in British Columbia, so, yeah, I, I don’t tease too hard to our, our Canadian brothers and sisters in the north.

Y’all are definitely some of those polite people in the world. For sure. Alex, let me ask you, what was the best advice you got when you found out you were gonna be a dad?

Alex R. Dane: When I found out I was gonna be a dad, the best [00:30:00] advice was to, uh, to enjoy the moments for what they are and try not to interfere with them too much.

Don’t get in the way of your kids’ fun. By having expectations on it, and to that, I’m gonna learn so much by, if I, if I just pause for a second and watch how they’re doing things. First, I’m gonna learn so much about what’s important in life. And that still sticks with me because you know what?

Kiddos again, or kiddos at 40, and although, you know, you know, I’ve got a good sense of humor in that, but we lose our ability to play. And then when kids come back, if you let them take the lead a little bit, sometimes they’ll teach you how to play again. And it can help you to fall in love with, with life.

Not that, you know, like I, I like life in all parts, even the [00:31:00] hard parts like we talked about before, but really kind of getting you back to what’s important, which is finding that joy. And, you know, that’s a very spiritual moment for me playing monster trucks. We set up a course yesterday and, and play monster trucks with my kiddos.

That’s a spiritual moment for me.

Brent Dowlen: Love it. What’s your favorite thing about being a dad?

Alex R. Dane: I don’t know. There’s so many, but I think the, the, I mean the singleness of purpose, knowing that, you know, family, I always have that purpose is a big one. The forming these relationships is big. And then, uh, knowing that no matter.

Even if I have a tough day at work, you know, I have a, a family at home and I ha I have a purpose that I can give to that family. You know, I’m not, I’m not perfect obviously, but, [00:32:00] but I have the opportunity to try to be a good person more so than when I was single. I, if that kind of makes sense. Not to shade on people that are not single, but, uh, not a parent.

Not to shade on people that aren’t parents, because I think everyone’s got their own journey. But for me, I really identify with that where Matthew McConaughey says like, he always wanted to be a father. Like I, I really, in hindsight, I was always coming towards this direction. Okay,

Brent Dowlen: so for our dads out there who are starting this journey of.

Their marriage is coming to an end. It’s not working. They look like they’re going towards separation or possibly divorce. You know, what, in what you’ve learned, right? And you consolidated this in the book you wrote, what is some practical advice that you’d like to share with [00:33:00] as they move into this?

Alex R. Dane: Yeah, so first off a, a a, a conscious uncoupling going to mediation if you need it, coming up with an agreement together.

Collaborative divorce is obviously by far the best way. My book’s written for when you’re already kind of past that. And when you’re in high conflict, if you’re in high conflict. Uh, and high conflict doesn’t mean like, like people are violent to each other. It doesn’t mean even that there’s arguing high conflict.

I learned because I was always confused by it. I’m like, well, it’s not that much conflict, but excuse me. It’s legal conflict is, is kind of my understanding of it right now. When you’re in that high conflict scenario where everything’s going to kind of go through the legal and the court systems and there’s no kind of reasonable talk or collaboration going on, then my advice would be a, grab my book just to help you out through, uh, but more likely, [00:34:00] B, you need, I needed to get my brain around the understanding of what was going on because for me, I, I can get angry sometimes, but it goes away so quick, you know, and, and I, I would keep trying to fix and kind of get everything back, but I needed to quickly realize the situation I was in was always going to be conflict.

And then b, I needed to be able to kind of hang on to my anger to get through the process so that I had enough fight to get through to the end. And then CA deep understanding that I was about to go through an unfair process and that it, that it would feel hopeless at times, but to keep walking forward through it.

Because there was, there was points where my brain, it wasn’t like maybe everything was gonna work out or it’s probably gonna work out. It’s, there’s no way this is going to work out. And I just kept moving forward and at the end it did work out. My life is better [00:35:00] than it’s ever been right now.

Brent Dowlen: Alright.

Fair enough. There’s a, it’s one of those things where, right, and, and guys, we’ll throw this in here for safety. This is not legal advice, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Disclaimer, disclaimer, disclaimer. So on, such forth. But I wanted to have this discussion with you because there are so many dads who are stuck in this.

So I mean, if we look at just the, the sheer volume on the numbers mm-hmm. So many guys who are look either in the process or looking down the barrel of divorce or, uh, likely to head that direction. And so, you know, being able to actually say, Hey, here’s some, here’s some ideas to, you know, be equipped in that scenario because so many men get blindsided, right?

We, we get a little fixed sometimes as guys and, and we don’t see the [00:36:00] forest through the trees. Not every guy sees it coming. And so having a place, a point of reference where we can go, okay, you know, other men are going through this, other men are struggling. There are so many dads out there right now fighting in the legal system.

To maintain their parental rights. Right. To be able to have the privilege of being a father. Mm-hmm. Even though rightfully they are to be able to exercise their rights as a father and actually be in the kids’ life, uh, who are struggling right now. It touches so many lives. It’s not just you and your partner, it’s you and your kids.

Right. It’s you and the family around you. And so being able to have these conversations and say, Hey, you know, if you’re looking at this, here’s an, here’s some insights from the front lines of this. What, what drove you to put this on in the book? ’cause that it, you just wanna share this experience with more [00:37:00] men or, or more people.

Alex R. Dane: Yeah. I mean, that’s definitely a part of it. I was, I was so surprised by the whole process and I, I dunno why, because if I thought about it. You know, it’s, it’s hard when talks about it, but to me it doesn’t make sense that we as a society, we come together and in theory you know, we have social systems to try to help out people.

And we have like, like a lot of my frontline work was in, was in mental health substance use since we try to help people through that. And then when we take like our family units, if they have to separate our process quickly goes into like, almost like war and war where you’re draining money, like a war, money attrition.

And, and I remember being at the beginning of it, I’m thinking, why, how is this the process? Like it should take two weeks. It should be you all sit together in a room. With community members or peers and respected people and come up [00:38:00] with an agreement that’s best for the family to move forward. And, uh, like you can tell how naive I’m about all this, and then I’m like, no, it’s this complete opposite where where people face financial ruin.

You, you know, suicide’s big for, for men in that, that risk kind of comes up. Mental health challenges PTSDs through this whole process as, as well could be there. And you have to fight to keep what should be like a soft, nice love thing like your family. Right. And going into that as well, kind of being in that shock, thinking that there must be a better way than this, but also there’s so much knowledge that people aren’t saying and legal knowledge.

Yeah. I’m definitely not given legal knowledge. I’ve, I’ve no legal experience. I’m giving my experience that’s. But to me that would’ve been more helpful at the beginning was, uh, to kind of have full [00:39:00] understanding of what is happening and how to navigate through that, both internally, emotion wise, because I’m, I’m telling you the whole thing, it ends like 80% of it is an internal emotion game to, to kind of get through it.

Because if you, on both sides you know, man or woman, if you have an emotional overreaction, I, you know, I didn’t, but I suspect the whole thing could be done. You, you know, you go into court if you had an angry outburst, you’re gonna be done. Or if you have an angry outburst outside of court and depending on recording laws and it’s recording, you could be done.

If you have too, too much of a, you know, crying outburst in, in both those situations as well, you know, it’s not, it’s not gonna go well for you. So kind of getting that internal game and, uh, you know, I, I had a lot that I learned over life to kind of, to, to be able to kind of share through getting that through.

But then [00:40:00] as well, like little things about systems. I knew systems but not this particular one. And understanding that, you know, your lawyer, they represent you, they have to vigorously defend you and that, but they have other. Other competing relationships that, and my lawyer was great, you know, like she was so good.

But, but I also started to understand, you know, like they have a firm, they have relationships with these judges that, and, and they need to balance that. They’re not gonna do something crazy to try to defend you and then sink their whole careers. You get your kiddos back, right? Not, I dunno if there is such a thing, but that’s not, that only happens maybe for the, the very rich people.

I think they give lawyers enough money that they’ll do some crazy procedural stuff. But that’s, that’s not likely to happen for, for you while you’re in the court case. But understanding kind of how to manage that would’ve been very useful. I spent way too much money sending emails because I was like, if I, if I.

Give enough [00:41:00] information to my lawyer, they’ll, they’ll use this. And so, but I didn’t realize at the beginning this too, every email was, uh, was, uh, I can’t remember how much now, 30 even email. And so I got some stuff about the practicality of all that, how to put it together. And even if you have that legal representation, you know, if you’re, if you’re, you’re going through that, you still need to put together a coherent story for your lawyer to use because they have ethics that they follow too.

And they, they have to kind of follow truth for kind of what your story is. And it’s, it’s gotta be coherent both for your own lawyer, but as well when you go to court if you wanna have a, a kind of chance at this. So, sorry, that’s my long quick rant at it, but I wished I knew all those things. I’m, I’m, uh, I believe in giving to the world and I wanna, I wanna put that forward for everyone, uh, to, to kind of fix some of the rif.

As [00:42:00] much as we can that’s being kind of torn apart by society for families going through this process.

Brent Dowlen: It’s interesting. You, uh, you bring up, you know, it has to be, you have to be in control of your story. You have to be in control of what you’re putting out there. I had a interview. I, I generally never take down an interview once I post it.

Right. I’ve been doing podcasting for years, done hundreds of episodes across my various podcasts. I’ve only taken down two.

Alex R. Dane: Mm-hmm.

Brent Dowlen: Uh, and all that time. And one of ’em, I, I, I got in like, I was via email arguing with the guy I had interviewed and all I can think of was there was a legal case he was involved in.

He wouldn’t give me a straight up answer. I was like, bro, I wouldn’t ask you to, you know, take down something you produce for your company ’cause he is a business owner. Yeah. Me to take down an interview is, I know you don’t see [00:43:00] it as a big deal, but this is what I do for a living. So taking these things down matters to me.

Right. But he wouldn’t give me an exact, I was like, do you have a valid reason why I need to take this down? ’cause he’s like, bro, just take it down. Like, no, you know, all I can think of is there was some kind of legal matter. Uh, but that’s the thing is we don’t think about it. We live, our culture has changed so radically, so quickly in the last 30 years.

Uh mm-hmm. Right. Since you can really say it, it started before that, but you can really see it in the 90, late nineties and up. How quickly, and you and I are about the same age. How quickly mm-hmm. Everything has evolved. If you look in hindsight mm-hmm. I didn’t have a cell phone when I was a kid. I remember, no.

You know, Commodore 64 and Atari, I, that was a huge deal. And now look where we are. Right. Technology wise, everybody’s online. Everybody’s life is very public. I’m very grateful. We didn’t have cell phones when I was [00:44:00] younger, ’cause I don’t want some of this stuff I did immortalized. But that thing is, so much is online now.

You have to think about who you are all the time because there’s always a chance. You’re on camera, you’re on audio recording, right? Everything you do, your life is documented these days.

Alex R. Dane: Mm-hmm.

Brent Dowlen: And so you have to think about it in the way you choose to live your life. Right? Because you said you were, you were blindsided, you weren’t expecting this.

Now anything that’s ever been recorded, right? If you haven’t lived your life in a way that you feel secure about, can be pulled back against you in court is crazy. I cannot believe how, you know, some of the younger generations are living at this point, some of the choices they’re making ’cause like. Yeah.

15 years from now, come back to bite you in the ass pretty hard.

Alex R. Dane: Yeah. And even, even stuff that didn’t happen, I mean, there was times in affidavits and there wasn’t really like [00:45:00] accusations against me because I think they would’ve lost like, and lost, you know what I mean? But it, it would’ve, they would’ve been seen as not credible pretty quick if there was some sort, but still the way they write them, you know, I read it and I’m like, who are they talking about?

Who are they talking about? And so I have this like, internal reaction, like, I’m like, oh my God, like a cloud would come over me that, uh, you know, this is, if someone reads this, they’re gonna think I’m horrible, incompetent you to talk about dad stereotypes, the sitcom dad who’s bumbling around can’t take care of kids.

And, and you know, but kind of, you kind of have to let that pass by. And you’re right. I mean, you’re. Tapping in our age is very similar. So we’re, I guess we’re Zenni always thought I was X, but that’s what I identified with GenX. But, uh, the, yeah, there wasn’t, there was landlines and, and sometimes I’ll talk about, because I, I like, I’m very techy, like I love [00:46:00] technology and so, uh, I would say things like, well, yeah, but before cell phones, you, if you didn’t call your friends on a Friday about what was going on for the weekend to catch up with them when you’re a teenager, you might be alone at home the whole weekend.

’cause they’re actually out about, or the whole night anyways. But with cell phones, you get it. But my mind has really shifted around quite a bit on it to where, you know, I record these, the, the skateboarding videos of my kiddos to kind of, so that I have like a photo book, the modern version of a photo book now for when they get older to show their progress.

I’ll put them up, you know, on Facebook. Facebook, I got a very small account because it’s got my family and friends on it, and maybe Instagram, but I think about it now. I’m like, well, if they’re a teenager and they see this and they’re cheesy dads in the picture with them, is someone gonna, you know, bully them later on?

You know, it’s, it’s, [00:47:00] it’s a really weird thing that none of this information kind of disappears as they’re, as they’re growing up. Mm-hmm. And, uh, and, uh, it’s sometimes I’m sad for the world that they’re growing up in. I don’t, I don’t wanna get too dark now, but it makes me a little bit sad that a, they can’t go run around.

I can’t say be back by dark. Mm. And we’re like, in Canada, it’s a safe neighborhood where I’m in, but I still, you can’t say go be back before dark. And when I. A little bit older than them. That was my life, you know, climbing trees and, and everything. So like that makes me sad that they’re missing out on that.

And it makes me sad that their life will be so examined when they’re growing up because I think it is an experiment. I mean, we’re like getting political now, but I’m, I’m for taking cell phones outta school till a certain age at least, [00:48:00] you know?

Brent Dowlen: I agree entirely.

Alex R. Dane: Yeah. And I’m techy. Like I love, I love my cell phone and, and computers.

I grew up, you know, with everything from Commodore 64 to, to a Tandy till 2 86. 3 86, 4 86. The Pentium Dunno if any of these are, but, but, uh, yeah.

Brent Dowlen: Made my living in the corporate IT space for over. Yeah. Uh, working on enterprise, enterprise level it work before I started doing this all the time, but yeah, no, I, I have the same reactions.

Right. I, you know, the rule was come home when the street lights come on, right? I had that grace period. Once the street lights came on, I had to be on our street. Yeah. Didn’t necessarily have to come home, but I had to be at lease on our street. I lived on a cul-de-sac, my in junior high. And so when the streetlights came on, we had to make our way back to lease our street.

We had like six kids on the street, so we’d be playing like flashlight tag at one of the [00:49:00] house. He had a big yard and so we’d be out playing flashlight tag and, and then it was when our moms yelled out the door for us. ’cause they knew we were on the street. Right?

Alex R. Dane: Yeah.

Brent Dowlen: And I, I remember

Alex R. Dane: my kids fat loose.

Yeah. Yeah. I remember flashlight take for sure kicked the can. Uh, this, it is like a hide and seek game, ghost in the dark or something like that. You guys ever play that?

Brent Dowlen: Yeah, yeah,

Alex R. Dane: yeah.

Brent Dowlen: Now that we’re really dating ourselves. But yeah, I work out, you know, I, yeah, I’m, I live in a very public space as a podcaster, and I was like, okay.

Or my podcast, like, I don’t say anything on the podcast. I’m ashamed of, there’s not a single episode I’ve ever been like I probably shouldn’t have posted that. But I wonder, it’s like, okay, when my children are older, I don’t think they want to go to politics or anything. But when they’re older, are people gonna pull up my podcast and be like, your dad’s a crazy psychopathic, you know, [00:50:00] extremist.

Yeah. He wears right. He

Alex R. Dane: wore a silly hat.

Brent Dowlen: He, he’s pretty conservative things guys.

Alex R. Dane: Yeah. Yeah. It’s hard to tell, but I, I mean, everything’s a pendulum too, right? So kind. I’m sure it’ll sling that. Do you think there’ll be cell phones in classes five years from now for 12 year olds? Like, I don’t think so.

Brent Dowlen: I know we’re experimenting it here.

Uh, I don’t know if it’s the whole country, but in Washington state, they’ve actually implemented a program. So our kids actually bag their cell phones when they’re walking to school now.

Alex R. Dane: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Brent Dowlen: That seems

Alex R. Dane: fair.

Brent Dowlen: They have been issued a special bag that has a special kind of clasp on it. Their phone has to go in the bag and then there’s a post.

They can tap it on as they walk out the doors to leave to unlock the case. But that case is locked.

Alex R. Dane: Yeah. Like when you go to a concert.

Brent Dowlen: Uh, sometimes. So that’s how our schools are now, our public schools. Yeah.

Alex R. Dane: That seems like a good idea. A little bit dystopian, but, [00:51:00]

Brent Dowlen: you know, but I’m, I’m not opposed to it because I know a lot of teachers, I have a lot of friends who are teachers and I know that like they are a hundred percent on board because phones become such a problem in their classrooms.

Yeah.

Alex R. Dane: Yeah.

Brent Dowlen: Right. You don’t have to have them to survive. You don’t need them to survive in school.

Alex R. Dane: No. And my

Brent Dowlen: kids are homeschooled, but I could call the public school if they were there back when they were there. I could call the office and be like, Hey, I need my kid now. I’ll be there in two minutes.

Alex R. Dane: We couldn’t wear hats to school.

You couldn’t Too dumb in class. Mm-hmm. It’s a different time. It’s a different time. For sure. Now I feel a little that I said that it was a different time when I grew up uphill both ways. Well,

Brent Dowlen: but the radical shift is how fast this happened. Right. And that’s what a lot of gen Z is not tracking. Right.

Because they’re alpha’s in school right now. But that’s [00:52:00] what a lot of Gen Z doesn’t track. Is the radical, the speed of the shift because Yeah, yeah, yeah. In our lifetime, we’ve gone from no computers in school. Yeah. To the very earliest computers in school, to cell phones that are more powerful than anything we ever had in school.

Right. Yeah. In a very short span of time.

Alex R. Dane: Yeah.

Brent Dowlen: And so there is a radical difference between like 1990 and 2025, the mad, mad difference between what’s actually available at school in the classroom and how online we’re, yeah. Is that 30, that 30 year radical shift is insane.

Alex R. Dane: Well, we don’t even understand because, you know, chat BT and essays, it just shifted everything.

Oh

Brent Dowlen: yeah. Right. Yeah. It’s big. Like

Alex R. Dane: if you’re in, I can only imagine, but if you’re, I’m sure they have rules against it, but then there’s ways around it if you’re in the IT space, you [00:53:00] know? And so I’m sure that kids, right now it, it must be. How good you can use AI without making it seem like you’re using AI

Brent Dowlen: well to

Alex R. Dane: do your work.

And what knowledge are they?

Brent Dowlen: There are sites to help, so you can go generate an essay on chat, GPT, and then there’s actually at least three other sites I’m aware of where you can then take that article and put it in there and it will take out and re-edit stuff so it doesn’t get caught by an AI scanner as being generated autogenerated.

Alex R. Dane: Mm-hmm.

Brent Dowlen: Because teachers have to use them now to check papers.

Alex R. Dane: Yeah. Yeah. And I hear if you’re a writer, you get more false positives. Mm-hmm. With, uh, using or not using ai. But I mean, I take all these things in because it’s like, to reflect it back to parenting is, I mean, these are things I think I think about as a father and I’m like, [00:54:00] how, how, you know, I’m a four and a 6-year-old right now and a baby on the way, but.

You know, thinking thoughts like, how do I make sure they have critical thinking so that if it’s kind of AI all the time, that they don’t like that they don’t end up not being able to do work if they’re still work. You know?

Brent Dowlen: And early studies are not positive on that.

Alex R. Dane: Yeah,

Brent Dowlen: it’s, it’s been a very small window already, but early studies are already showing a decline in cognitive function for people.

The more they use ai, the less actual thinking capability they seem to have.

Alex R. Dane: Yeah. And, and we likely have it, I mean, I guess the, the jury’s still out how much critical they can have. But, but, uh, definitely we’re a science computer. I mean, calculators, I remember them talking about. Whether to use calculators at an early age or not.[00:55:00]

Brent Dowlen: Oh, that’s a fight in my school. Whether you could use calculators or not.

Alex R. Dane: Yeah. For, yeah. Seems so hokey now,

Brent Dowlen: right?

Alex R. Dane: Compared to,

Brent Dowlen: compared to the possibility of having, yeah. EPT in your pocket.

Alex R. Dane: Yeah.

Brent Dowlen: Alexa device.

Alex R. Dane: Yeah. And then resilience too. Like, I mean, that’s part of the reason why I like them skateboarding.

I have to get over my own anxiety when they’re falling. Mm-hmm. A little bit. I guess I’m a bit of a softy for the, the kiddos, but with their pads they’re fine. But, uh, um, but there was conscientious thoughts about it, like, oh, this is good for them because if they can’t go rough and tumble outside, because there are studies around.

How risky play is. Very important. Yeah. And in my day job, I did work in child psychiatry for quite a while and uh, [00:56:00] and uh, so I saw that were kind of the worst of the worst cases. And I could see, you know, that there’s some for, for younger than adolescent it was always kind of boys struggling and I’m just talking percentages here and then into adolescence.

It was more the girls, it’s kind of the shift, the demographics shifted, but I could see that with the anxiety that people would have or the restlessness that this risky play, and not to use one thing to solve a complex problem, but risky play was very important. And so some of the conscientious decisions around parenting are those things that I do.

So trying to keep it so that, you know, my 4-year-old, I’m not doing everything for ’em, for rushing in the cards. I know everyone knows this, but. Have the time and space that he can put on his clothes. And so I’m not all anxious on his back saying, hurry up with your socks. So I don’t kind of put that anxiety into him.

Mm-hmm. But as well, giving him the space to fall down a thousand [00:57:00] times at the skate park or kind of other areas, but I don’t know. They’re kind of, they’re kind of rough and tumble boys, so they just started doing it anyways. Now I’m kind of like, well, you could jump off of that. But these are the consequences.

I probably wouldn’t, it’s little bit high.

Brent Dowlen: I’m, I’m still the doubt who will go, yeah, you could do that. Like my, my daughter’s like, I really wanna do this. Like, okay, go ahead and do that. It’s like, no.

Alex R. Dane: Yeah.

Brent Dowlen: And, and right. And, and when, when they’re like, my brain can calculate, it’s like acceptable risk level. Yeah, they’re probably gonna spr their ankle or do, yeah, go ahead.

You’re fine.

Alex R. Dane: Where you try to like calm down inside, even though you’re anxious about what they’re doing, you’re not anxious but scared that they might fall hurt, but you don’t wanna jinx them or put that fear into them. Like, I was just thinking a drop. I didn’t wanna [00:58:00] put that fear into him. So he is like, like, I think we told this story earlier, but Dad, I wanna drop in on this.

And my internal reaction was just very quick, was just like terror because I was thinking of me dropping in on it, which would’ve been a bad idea, but I kind let it flow through me. And then once it kind of passed by, I said, yeah, I think you can do that. Managing my own anxiety more than his, his anxiety about the trick he’s gonna do and it worked out.

Brent Dowlen: Yeah, it’s, it’s important. Kids have gotta discover on their own right. And that’s the thing is. We look at all of the technology that’s happening so rapidly, ’cause we’ve been alive long enough to see when it didn’t, wasn’t normal, wasn’t every day to now, right?

Alex R. Dane: Mm-hmm.

Brent Dowlen: And so some of our anxiety about all the change and all the differences and how fast it’s changing puts us in a state of, oh my God, like, is this okay?

But then you [00:59:00] look at our children, this is the only world they ever knew. Mm-hmm. This isn’t, they, they see it from a totally different perspective. This is normal. This is the only world we know, right? Mm-hmm. We get some of that parental anxiety because we are old enough to remember when it wasn’t quite like that.

And like I said, there’s been such radical change in the last 35 years, 30 years mm-hmm. That the generations that are coming into that are going, uh, uh, I remember when and, and we have stop and go wait. Yeah, but they don’t. This is just life to them, this is normal. This isn’t a change, this isn’t something new.

This is just the life they live.

Alex R. Dane: Yeah. In some ways I have to humble myself a bit because I don’t, I don’t have the experience of the world too. And so what I’m thinking about some of those future decisions sometimes I think is I don’t fully know the best path for them. You know, like I can set them up with values and the guidelines that work for [01:00:00] me, but who knows what the world will be like in 10 years, let alone 20 years for them, and what values and kind of skill sets they’ll need.

But, uh, that’s, that’s why I think, like, I do think of kind of spiritual guidance. There has to be something kind of bringing us all through this. But, but sometimes I think, you know, I don’t, I don’t have all the answers, but that’s okay too.

Brent Dowlen: Well, that’s why we have conversations like this, because. Together.

We have a whole lot more knowledge and experience. Right. When dads talk, and that’s so important for dads. That’s one of the reasons we do this show. There are so many dads that don’t have a community of dads around them.

Alex R. Dane: Mm-hmm.

Brent Dowlen: When we talk to other dads, we can have a collective knowledge base to go, oh, okay.

That that is, that is normal. Oh, okay. My kid’s not the only one who does that. Oh, your, your kid. You worry about that too. Okay. That, you know, because that gives us a [01:01:00] space of knowledge and strength to go, okay, maybe I’m not screwing my kid up quite as bad as I thought I was. Right. ’cause we’re all worried about that.

In the back of our minds, we’re all like, uh, I’m trying not to screw up this kid.

Alex R. Dane: Yeah. Yeah. No, that’s so important. The network is so important. If you, I know it’s hard to go talk to new people and that, but if you don’t have that network and I think. And, uh, you’re a parent or a dad you need to get that.

And I think it’s a resilience thing too. If it’s hard to go to the dad’s group or it’s hard to talk to your friend who’s a dad, you know, I think build that resilience so that you have that network. Because another, I have a whole chapter on it, but having that backup network, you need the people that call your bs.

You know, you need that straight talk. Sometimes you need those people that are your support. And yeah, you need those people that are kind of normalizing your experience. [01:02:00] Because if it’s, if it’s just me and my own mind going through this whole process, I can get pretty tangled up in there about, you know, what’s, what’s going on and, and what’s normal in that.

But even just. Speaking out loud to someone else. You know, the, the truth, the shine in the light of truth on the words, it becomes very apparent. You know, whether what I’m saying is, is nonsense, or whether it’s, uh, great parenting. You know,

Brent Dowlen: absolutely. Alex, gotta start landing this plane. What is your best piece of advice for dads out there?

Alex R. Dane: My best piece of advice for dads is to take it easy on yourself and just focus on play and you’ll be okay.

Brent Dowlen: Where’s the best place for people to connect with you? Obviously we’ll have all your links for the book and everything else and the show notes, but where’s the best place for people to connect with you?

Alex R. Dane: Yeah, I mean, if you wanna interact with me, [01:03:00] just connect with me on the, the substack, any, any of the socialist work. There’s a little bit of Facebook, a little bit Instagram but uh, how to win Your Divorce, do substack.com. And, uh, you know, I welcome anyone asking questions or, or wanted to chat a bit.

You’ll have me on the line there. And then the book www win is, uh, uh, we’ll have presales coming up soon in, uh, in October.

Brent Dowlen: Alright, if our listeners heard nothing else today, Alex, what do you want ’em take away?

Alex R. Dane: I’ll go with the, the ever classic. Take it easy on yourself and, uh, and the fact that you’re even questioning anything that’s going on puts you a step ahead because as soon as we kind of question what we’re doing, then we’re working towards the right answer for the direction we need to go.

Brent Dowlen: Alright guys, thanks for joining [01:04:00] us today on the Dad Hatch Shena Podcast. A comedian of dads just navigating life challenges together. For Alex and myself, be sure and connect with us wherever we are. We we’re here. Guys, ask the questions. Find Alex if this is a conversation that is helping you. Share it with someone who needs it.

Until next time, laugh, learn and live the dad life.