Quality Over Quantity The New Math of Fatherhood

[00:00:00] In today’s episode, Jason Lang and I are diving into the most important, yet most neglected aspect of being a dad. As a dad, we know that you’ll move heaven and earth for your kids. Guys, there’s no question you love them, you want the best for them, and you would drop everything to be a great dad. However that might be exactly what’s keeping you from being the best dad you can be.

What if being the best dad you can be means not? Dropping important things like your personal care routine or going to the gym or eating right or spending time with the guys. Even today. Jason shares how these things help make you the dad you want to be. Check out this amazing dad story, Jason shares, and then we’re gonna jump to our sponsor and check in with them and dive fully into why you need to take care of yourself as dad.

Jason, we, we all have those dad stories that just put a smile on our face no matter what or where. What’s your favorite dad story? Yeah, [00:01:00] my, uh, I, I think I’ll go with one of my favorite stories here and that is honestly just, maybe it’s not even a specific moment, but it’s seeing my two children relate. So, uh, my wife and I had quite a journey to have our second kid fertility challenges, um, but I always had this deep sense of like.

I, I feel like it’s two. I just, I feel like it’s two, right? Uh, from the moment she and I met, I had this like, visualization of holding two kids’ hands. One, one kid in each hand. And my daughter was, um, almost five when my son was born last year. And he was born at home overnight, like basically at midnight.

And so she was asleep. She had been asleep, uh, the whole through the whole thing. And so I had to go in and, and wake her up the next morning. My, my [00:02:00] daughter’s deaf and so she can’t hear during the nights ’cause she has devices that help her hear. So, which was kind of a blessing for the birth. ’cause my wife was, you know, screaming and so much noise and my daughter just slept through the night.

Um, but I remember coming into her room and waking her up at like, probably like seven in the morning. And just turning to her and being like, he came, you know, see Cedar’s here. He, he was born last night. You, you have a baby brother now. And she just looked at me and she, honestly, she burst into tears just like total, uh, heartbreak in a sense, because she, even at her young age, knew things were never gonna be the same.

Like in the family system and the attention she got from mom and dad. And I was like, oh my God. Oh no, this is how it’s starting. Like, so there’s a little bit of a panic of like, oh, what’s this gonna be like? And then she didn’t [00:03:00] really wanna see my wife for like the first couple days. My wife was kind of just sequestered in the, in the bedroom and she was feeling very shy about it.

Um, but then like three days in. She started to thaw and she crawled into bed next to my wife as she was holding this beautiful, our beautiful son infant. And she like touched him and, and, and then it was just came over and now like there’s a quite an age gap, but she just adores this, this, this little boy, and they’re developing this incredible relationship and just every time I see them I’m like, oh my God.

Everything it took us to get here was so worth it because they just have this love for each other that I’m seeing that’s independent of kind of like my wife and I. And something about that is just, I, I just, yeah. Anyway, I, I can feel the, the wellspring of like, fuck, it was, [00:04:00] it was all worth it. And, um, seeing kids relate in love like that and, and know that, okay, whatever happens to us, I.

They’re gonna have each other right now. It just, I just love telling that story of the, just, I’ll never forget how she just burst into tears in that way that a 5-year-old just was totally overwhelmed with, okay, something is different now and it’s always gonna be different. But then it really ended up in a place of love.

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Welcome to the Dad Hatch Shenanigans podcast, the unfiltered Truth about being a dad. Real dad’s real stories, unfiltered, candid conversations, fatherhood. I’m your host, Brent d. Today, my special guest is Jason Lang. Jason, welcome to the show man. I’m so pumped to be here with a, with a fellow dad. Now. Now Jason, you already, uh, we, we’ve met [00:06:00] before.

For people who, dunno, Jason’s been a guest on, uh, well now they’re driven to Thrive Pro broadcast. You’ll find under the Fallible Man podcast as well. Uh, my other show, and we had great conversations there and Jason, that story you told at the beginning was just. Heart wrenching man. Like I, I’m just, I could feel the fatherhood pride.

Like I’m, I’m just sitting there watching you smile and I’m like, I’m feeling it too. It’s like, oh my gosh. That’s such an amazing moment to just,

oh

yeah, bro. I can’t even, and congratulations on the birth of your son. I know. That was a lot. A lot. Thank you. And we’ll dive into that farther. So you have a boy and a girl and they’re five and he is how old now?

A couple months. He’s seven months. Seven months. Yeah. Man, and she’s So she’s getting close to six. Yeah, she’s, she’s more on the five and a half range. Yeah. She’ll be six in December, so yeah. That, that matters to kids. My, my 10-year-old is turning 11 in July, and, and so she’s very quick, like I’m [00:07:00] almost 11.

Totally does. That’s important. They, they, they are. It’s funny, as we get older, we’re like, yeah, whatever. It’s another year. Yeah,

right.

That young age though, they’re like, no, no, no. I’m, I’m, I’m a 10.75 at this point. You know? Yeah. Yeah. There’s like a pride in it When you’re young of the agency, you’re getting and, and then it, you become an adult and it’s like, I don’t wanna know how old I totally changes.

I, I, I’m not so worried about knowing how old I am. I just don’t care anymore. It’s like I had all misconceptions, right? Growing up about Eugene. You’re like, oh my God, you’re 40, you’re almost dead. Right. I had all these misconceptions about aging, and now at 45, I’m like, I’m just getting started. I, I’ve been wrong about all this all along, so now I’m just like, eh, it’s another day.

But that’s right. We just keep on rolling. You just keep on rolling. So now you are relocated. [00:08:00] You were a California guy and now you’re in Colorado. Beautiful area. How’s life looking these days? Life’s great. Yeah. Both, both kids are thriving and it’s the first time I’ve, it’s the first time I’ve been slotted in, in life knowing we kind of, we’re really specific about where we moved.

Uh, we’re like literally a four minute walk from the elementary school, 10 minute walk from middle school, I’d say 15 to 20 minute walk from the high school. So it’s just really interesting. Okay. Uh, our, my whole life’s gonna be in this radius for the next 20, 20 years or so, uh, which has just changed what it feels like for me to be so anchored in, in somewhere and seeing my kids just relax into this life and world and get integrated and doing all the activities have started for my 5-year-old, and it’s just like, okay, it’s gonna go fast.

Like. Like you were saying, I, I can feel how, [00:09:00] oh yeah, she’s starting activities. He’ll be getting into some activities in a couple years and they’ll be outta the house before I know it. So there’s, there’s a preciousness to it of, you know, it always stuck with me that platitude. I heard that, you know, the, the, the days are long and the years are short and it’s like, feels so true.

It’s like sometimes just getting through a day feels epic. Then it’s like, wow. I was, I was just mourning the other day there. Being part of a parent is all these phases of letting go and it’s like, wow, my son is not an infant, a newborn anymore. Like that. That energy of kind of just the bottles and the breastfeeding and the bouncing and the shushing and like it’s done.

1. Like, he’s this little autonomous guy who just wants to get his hands on everything and lets us know when he is happy and sad. And, um, he, like, he’s developing agency and I was just knowing, I was like, wow. Yeah. Like I used to have to bounce him on this, uh, medicine ball to help him fall asleep. And it’s just one of those, you know, those many things I’m always [00:10:00] tracking of, oh, I don’t even know when the last time was.

There was a time, like I was, felt like I was doing this three times a day for naps and for bedtime, but at some point there was a last one and it already happened, and it, yeah, just that stuff catches me all the time. It, it’s crazy. I, you know, and, and it’s awesome that you stop and appreciate that because I think a lot of us as dads are so busy feeling overwhelmed, trying to keep up, trying to, God, am I making enough money?

Am I all these fears and worries we have. That sometimes we miss the fact that it’s like I, I saw one of those a meme the other day and it’s like you never know when the last time you’re gonna go out that your kid’s gonna go out to play. Right? Just like go play carefully and. Yeah. And it’s like talking about being present and it’s like, you know, that there’s, there’s a deep legitimacy to that.

’cause those transactions happen so [00:11:00] fast. It’s like, it’s, I think a lot of dads miss those things because you don’t, you’re so busy with everything. You’re afraid that you’re not gonna do as a dad. Yeah. Or. So many responsibilities that sometimes you miss. It’s like, wow, that’s the, that’s the last moment I’m gonna bounce my kid to sleep.

They don’t need that from me anymore. Right. All those moments happen. Yeah. So fast and I, I think it is, it’s definitely something I’m noticing of maybe the benefit of having a second and, and knowing for our family. This is our, this is our last is. It’s much easier to appreciate some of these moments and definitely having more of an experience of being able to drop into that in the moment and realize, oh, this, this is a really good moment.

Mm-hmm. This is a moment, uh, I’m happy to be here. Even if it’s chaos or a mess. Right. It’s just like, it’s never gonna be like this again. And, uh. [00:12:00] That kinda, um, gratitude feels so good this time where the first time there was, there was a lot more fear for me ’cause I had never been a parent before. We were dealing with my daughter’s diagnosis.

There was a lot more uncertainty in the air. Um, and, you know, did the best I could. But there is something very sweet about this time knowing like, okay, yeah, the, the, this, this, the time really is short. You never know what, what those moments are girly gonna get you. Everybody told me it’s like. Just wait till they go to school, dude.

Let him go to school. The first time it was, I was like, we got to that. And I was like,

yeah,

okay. You know, taking, taking my daughter to kindergarten for the first time, I was like,

eh,

yeah. A little, little rough. But you know what got me the first time my daughter went to youth group? My, my, mm-hmm. 15. She started gonna youth group when she was 11 or 12, but the first time I dropped her off at youth group at church.

And I, I dropped her off. Right. It wasn’t gonna school [00:13:00] school’s part of life, but just like, oh no, this is the beginning of a, a pipeline. I remember well as a youth, men, former youth minister, and so like dropping her at youth group the first time was like, oh, you know, my, our speeding. I’m like, I don’t know if I could do this, honey.

You know? My wife’s like, it’s okay, dude. Yeah. You just never know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I, I’ve, I’ve had a few of those moments of, yeah. I guess in a way for me, it’s like seeing my daughter play and like run off and just the fe feeling, you know, that ever gradual process of separation. Mm-hmm. It’s like you we’re never as close as when they’re a newborn and it’s just like you’re so close and you’re with them all day.

And then just step by step. More and more distance, uh, kind of comes over time. You know, I saw you, you’ve probably seen the crazy stat where they’re like, it’s on average something like 90% of the time you’ll [00:14:00] spend with your kids in your life is before they’re 18. Mm-hmm. And, and it’s just like, whoa. And then I think back to my life and my relationship with my parents, and I’m like, wow.

Yeah. Kind of like, you know, I see them. As much in three years now, as you know, I did in a month when I was living at home. Oh, yeah. No, it’s, it is crazy and I think it’s even, I think it dials down that stat dials down even farther and it’s already, you’ve spent, the majority of the time you’re going to, by their time they’re 10 or 11 or something.

Yeah. Wow.

It’s true. Probably before the friend group and the peers and the, yeah. Right. It was rough the first time she went to play and she didn’t like linger to look back to make sure you were still close. Totally right. So Jason, tell us, tell us about your dad hat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this, this hat is, um, I.

It comes from an organization called Integration Nation, which I’m a men’s coach and I, I lead men’s groups for, for guys. Um, [00:15:00] and this is an organization that does that. And the man who founded it, I’m in a men’s group with, and he’s probably, I don’t know, maybe 30 years my senior. And, um, I had my first daughter about a year after getting into a group with him and.

When she was born, we didn’t know, but she was born deaf and COVID hit and it was just like this swirl of intensity and uncertainty for me in my life. And he, um, his name’s Robert, um, was such a source of solace for me. In having somewhere to come and his kids were kind of grown up and like he was on the other side.

And it was one of those things of just having someone to come to who got it, you know, even though my circumstances were unique, but got the challenges of what it feels like when your child has a health crisis or what it feels like when there’s. [00:16:00] Uncertainty in the air, you know, culturally or politically or, or, or just when they won’t sleep, you know, like whatever that might be.

And it’s been, it was such a game changer for me to not, um, dad alone quite, quite frankly, to, to try to have to figure it out alone and have him, and, and guys I met through him as a resource for just, where do I go when I am overwhelmed as a dad. Right? I think his dad’s, like you said, I. We spend so much time holding everyone else, our kids, sometimes our wives, um, but often we don’t have a space to go to of like, Hey, where do I go when my tank’s empty or I’m freaking out?

And so, um, this kind of work that I’m involved in and, and, and this hat really represents, we need that too as men. And the more resourced, you know, I’ve become in my life, which often comes from connection with other men, the easier it is for me to show up and be totally [00:17:00] present in my family with my kids and actually have, you know, life does get so busy.

And one of the things I realized was. Wow, okay. My responsibility is to take care of myself. So in the moments I do have with my children and my wife, I have the energy to actually be there, like to play or to not be stressed out about work or to be so tired or, you know, whatever that might be. And that’s been a game changer in terms of.

Other men and, um, like this hat really represents for me, like it’s my job to show up with enough energy in the tank to be present for my family, and they can’t do that for me. They can support me with some things around that, but sometimes that means actually, oh, I, I need to take time off, including from the family so I can get recharged so I can be present with them and not be kind of half present as, uh, I think I maybe struggled a little bit more with early in my parenting.

[00:18:00] Well, and that, that segues nicely because I think that’s, that’s the conversation we’re having today, right? We’re talking about, uh, how men need to connect and recharge and, uh, the benefit of having a tight circle of men, whether you call it a men’s group or whether you call it your group of buddies. What, whatever you guys need to call to not feel.

I, I know some of us are a little, a little. Uh, neolithic. You know, I, we like to grunt and pretend we like to go things alone, right? We don’t want, we don’t need other people, whatever. Um, so you can call it your group of friends or you can call it a men’s group, but we need other men in our lives to show up at our, our best selves, including for our family, right?

And I think that’s the direction we’re going today.

Mm-hmm.

So, Jason, let, let’s dive into that. You said something very interesting. Uh. Right there at the beginning of that was you don’t have to dad alone. [00:19:00] And I, you said several things that I wanna jump into, but you said you don’t have to dad alone. And I think that’s a

Yeah.

Conception we have as fathers is we’re going through this alone.

Yeah.

Yeah. So many men, I mean, this is just a cultural thing beyond dads and just men, you know, we’re, we’re taught to be a man is to be tough and to being vulnerable and not need help. Asking for help, you know, is weak, is often the message a lot of us get.

Um, but it puts a lot of stress and a lot of burden on us, uh, uh, uh, particularly as fathers. I would say, you know, I work with a lot of guys and it’s, it’s one of those things that can become quite a trap where guys have such devotion to their family that, you know, particularly in terms of their intimate relationship, everything that they were doing in their life.

To make them an attractive, vibrant, alive, vital man. They start to let go of the second relationship and kids [00:20:00] happen. ’cause it’s like, oh no, I got to their stuff first. Their stuff first, their stuff first. And, and then, you know, as fathers it’s very easy to become just exhausted, burdened, constantly putting everyone else forward and inside, you know, we’re kind of suffering.

And, um, you know, one of my teachers once phrased this to me is. The sweet spot of that male community, whether it’s a group or buddies or whatever that might be that we all need, particularly as fathers, is to get into spaces of no demand. What I mean by that is nobody needs anything from us, so it’s a huge realization.

I had maybe. Six months ago and I’m still working towards it so I haven’t sorted it out yet. But in my mind I was like, ah, I take time off work. ’cause I was doing this thing where I was taking half a Friday off. I’d pick my, my daughter at half a day school at that time on Fridays. I’d pick her up and I’d take her on [00:21:00] adventures.

My wife could like get some space before our other sun. And then I basically, other than maybe like two work calls very early on Saturdays, take Saturdays off. So in my mind I was taking time off. Um, but then I was actually in a group and talking about how fried I was and some guys reflected to me that’s like, not that I don’t love my family, but being with my family is not actually time off.

I’m still showing up as the role of a husband in a father. My kids constantly need things from me. My wife needs things from me, and so my tank was getting more and more empty, even though I had told myself I wasn’t working. And so it’s something I’m working on integrating with my wife’s health is to basically take Thursdays off where I just get eight or nine hours to do my own thing.

I’m not working. I’m not with her. I’m not with the kids. I get that a lot in retreats I do with men and time I spend with [00:22:00] them, but it’s always there that I get the most re like, like quite honestly, like recharge. It’s like my battery goes and I get full and then this thing happens where, uh, when my tank is full.

In that sense, when I’ve been in a space of no demand, meaning I’m particularly spending time with other people who don’t need anything from me. Right. This is the, the beauty of being in a, a, a, a male group when we get it right, um, is I’ll start to get restored. And when I get restored to a certain part, it’s like I suddenly can’t wait to go see my family.

Like, I’m so excited to get back home and see my wife and spend time with my kids rather than if my tank’s too low. Sometimes it feels like a burden. It’s like, okay, how am I gonna get through the next. Three hours of watching them both, what am I gonna do? How am I going spin this plate and dah, dah, dah.

Um, so that, that male community, just, just on that connection thing alone, when we’re in a space where the other [00:23:00] men don’t need anything from us, it’s deeply restoring to, to most men and fathers, whether it’s, you know, going out fishing, going on a hunting trip. Um, sometimes even just going to watch a game, right?

It’s just like nobody needs anything from me right now. We need to make that time for ourselves. At least I’ve discovered, and as I’ve supported other men, in finding that it creates a level of aliveness and vitality that, um, you know, I’ve worked with hundreds of men at this point, and one of the things, one of the, the hard things a lot of guys realize is actually one of the greatest gifts I can give to my children is them seeing a happy.

Alive, father. And if we are not taking care of ourselves, oftentimes it’s hard to make that happen, right? We’re, we’re, we’re stressed out or so exhausted or, or grumpy or burdened or whatever the things. It’s just very easy to do when the many, many stresses, uh, uh, particularly of being a, a family man and a father are at her plate.

Yeah. Let me, [00:24:00] let me jump here and, and ask you, ’cause I can hear the pushback. Like I, I can just hear the. Um, because this is something that I’ve had to work on in my life. Uh, yeah. You, you were talking and, and yeah. It’s the first thing that goes down is the health. Right? I stop working out, I stop eating as well.

Um, I stop spending time doing things I love, right? It’s the first thing goes out the way and you start worrying about your family and being there for your fa and you’re trying to be present for your kids, right? And all that good stuff, and you’re trying to. All the me stuff goes right? And so I know one of the things that was really hard as I started this, my own journey on trying to.

Make sure I put in right. My wife finally convinced me this last weekend. I went over to my brother-in-law’s house, uh, and I was very quickly corrected that I hadn’t been there over to that side of the mountains. I live in Washington [00:25:00] and my wife’s family lives on the west side of the mountains, and we live on the east side of the mountains and in Washington state that, that, that line must, might as well be like the equator, like Yeah.

Rarely come over here and vice versa. Um. Even though the mileage is, is really relative, but it’s like this giant, we might as well be in separate countries.

Yeah.

And my mother-in-law was quick to point out. I haven’t been over since like 2021, um, to that side of the mountains, at least to visit them. Like I had a good

run,

but, you know, uh.

But I was sitting there, we put the kids down, all the kids were settled. He’s got two younger kids and, uh, my daughters were down and we were sitting on the back porch smoking cigars and just talking, right? It, it was him and his girlfriend, and me and my wife, and we were just sitting there enjoying the evening and join a cigar and [00:26:00] just conversating.

There was, there was no demands. There was no need. And that moment was so restorative, right. That that evening there was so I could feel after my normal long, I work seven days a week. Uh, you know how it is when you have your own business, you’re constantly going. Yeah. But I know so many men and one of the hard things for me early on was trying not to feel guilty, right.

About stopping and being like, no, I need to go get on my motorcycle for an hour or two and just be gone. Yeah. Right. So for the men listening, ’cause I know so many dads who struggle with this, how do you advise guys to deal with that? ’cause I know so many men who feel so guilty if they do anything for them.

Yeah. Well I think it ties into that happiness thing. In, in, in, there’s a way we can kind of hack that in terms of, actually it’s a gift to my children for them to spend time around [00:27:00] me when I’m happy and restored. ’cause what kid doesn’t wanna see their dad happy? Right. So sometimes to be happy I need to do these things.

And the other thing I’d say is, and you know, I’ve had to make some changes around this, was, um. It’s a bit of a mindset shift, but I think a lot of us dads confuse quantity of time with quality of time with our kids. And what I have discovered, um, and and now seen in in men I work with is when we start to tease those apart, quality actually ends up being much more impactful than quantity.

And what I mean by that is if, like I said, if I’m showing up to family time or managing my kids, or even honestly just my relationship with my wife, but I’m stressed out about work or I’m exhausted, or I haven’t taken enough time for myself, and there’s that kind of like I. I’m kind of here, but some of my attention is also here.[00:28:00]

I don’t, um, you know, I, I’ve done it. I’m sure every dad has, I’m kind of like fake playing with my kids. I know how to make it seem like I’m playing. I might be on the couch and giving them directions, but I’m not actually joining my child in her world or his world, which is a very different energy of like, I’m actually joining you in your world.

I’m not just directing you in, in from here while you’re in it. That they can feel that. Or if I’m constantly checking my phone or you know, just super exhausted. And the switch I’ve made is actually getting clear that quality time is more important than quantity. Time of time. And so like in, in our house, we made the shift when my son was born of my wife and I each prioritize.

Now it’s gonna sound tiny, but we each take 15 minutes. With our daughter to give her what we call special time, where it is 100% [00:29:00] attention and we do whatever she wants to do. There’s no checking phones, there’s no distractions. It is, you get me for 15 minutes, 100% attention, and it is amazing as like a, the word, like a preventative medicine, what?

She gets the time with my wife usually in the mornings ’cause I’m working and then I take them in the afternoons and I, I give her that time when we’re doing that regularly. She’s happier, she’s more fulfilled. She has less outbursts or tantrums and it gives us a channel to when sometimes life is busy and it’s like, Hey, we gotta get to this thing, we gotta do this thing, but you’re gonna get special time.

And she trusts it. She knows it’s gonna come. That shift to that kind of quality has been really important for me to realize and has helped me create the space then to sometimes, okay, I need to go be with my men’s group tonight, or I’m gonna go away and go on this hike [00:30:00] today. Um, because then when I know I come back, there’s gonna be more of me there with you in the moments we do have together.

And instead of feeling like, oh my God, I have to be with them 24 7. Now there’s this realization that no, I don’t have to be with them forever, but when I am with them, I need to really be with them to really be present. And for me, it’s turned out to be easier when I have these kind of scheduled me time breaks or us time breaks for my wife and I, um, to take some of that burden off and know that okay, I don’t have to pretend like.

I used to guilt myself when I was kind of playing from afar with my kids. It’s like, oh, I’m just so exhausted. I, I just don’t have it to get down on the floor and whatever. Um, like, I should be doing more. I should be doing more. But now that I have a space where, yeah, I know at least 15 minutes a day, I’m fully showing up for my kid.

In, in, in like real dad presence. And sometimes it’s more than that depending on our schedules and [00:31:00] whatnot. But, uh, it’s really changed a lot for me and it’s helped me unwind some of that guilt in a pretty profound way and allow me to take better care of myself. And then it also gets better for me ’cause then I have more fun with my kids when I’m with them.

’cause I’m like, oh, this isn’t gonna be five hours of playing, you know, bluey figures. Like, I can do this for 15 minutes and I can get really into it. For 15 minutes, right. Like really animated and really playful and really give myself over. And it’s like it charges her battery up. Uh, you know, my daughter’s battery up in that time.

And, and then I feel okay taking that time off or supporting my wife and taking her time off. ’cause we just both know at this point. We feel different when we’ve had it and it feels good to our kids and it feels good for us to each other. I think one of those, one of the, the things I share with other dads and men is there, there’s a profound impact to actually put something like [00:32:00] that on your schedule.

I have one evening a week on, usually Monday afternoons from four o’clock to eight o’clock. There’s nothing else on my calendar. It’s me. Yeah. Like my, my wife doesn’t even get to play. It’s me and my daughters. From four o’clock till 8, 8 30, there’s nothing else. There’s no cell social media. But the fact that my daughters can confidently, ’cause I have a one of those Amazon picture framing things that has my, my calendar and stuff in my office.

They can come in and see it’s blocked on my calendar. Literally nothing can be booked in that timeframe. It’s blocked. It’s theirs. They know this is. No questions asked. We’re, we’re gonna find something to do and we may cut up and watch a movie, or we make a good ice cream or combination of all kinds of things.

But it’s theirs. It’s protected. Nobody gets it. Yeah. People try and be like, oh, can we? And it’s like, Nope, sorry. Like it’s, it’s much as anything on my work schedule. [00:33:00] And there’s something about that gift to your kids of them going, no, I know this time is mine. Yeah. Totally. They, they can own that. That gives ’em a sense of security, uh, in a chaotic world, I think.

So is your 15 minutes, like once a day, 15 minutes for both of you? Yeah, we do. My wife and I each do 15 minutes a day and then we, um, I. We alternate once a week.

Mm-hmm.

We do a, a deeper expedition. So like, uh, actually it’s my weekend coming up, so I’ll take my daughter for three hours where we leave the house and we call it a Leva palooza where she just gets a hundred percent a daddy and we get to go on some kind of cool adventure or hike or movie or trampolining or whatever.

Um, and then the next week it’ll be my wife. And so it actually works out, you know, as my son gets older, then it’ll just be. He’ll be with the other alternate parent while one’s with the other one. And same thing that allows us to do these kind of deeper. [00:34:00] Dive, uh, one-on-ones that have, have, are one of the great tips I actually got from other men around.

Once a new kid comes into the family system, it’s one of the ways you can really help them still feel loved and integrated. That new kid is, yeah, I know you get this precious time with me and you’re gonna get time with mommy next weekend. You get time with me and then every day you’re getting these kind of microbursts and yeah, I think what it does in that way that you’re talking about.

I imagine being my daughter, but it, I know. And, uh, this, I mean, honestly, the same thing works with my wife in terms of us putting things on the schedule to be with each other. Is it communicates to our children or our, our, our wives, our partners, uh, that you’re a priority, right? Our connection, our time together is a priority in my life, right?

So it’s on the calendar for this reason, so you can feel it. And I think that means something to them, you know, whereas my parents loved me, but. They were working all day, every day and we didn’t have that. And so part of [00:35:00] my nervous system just internalized like, okay, I’m not a priority in that sense. And I think that’s the case for a lot of kids.

Um, but this is one of the great gifts of learning to. Increase self-care like I talked about, which spending time with other men is one of the most profound ways to do that, to get restored ourselves as fathers as is. You know, another thing I’ll just name about that is a great thing a lot of men have taught me is one of the other great gifts I can give my daughter and my, my new son is.

Arranging experiences for them where they get to spend time with other really high quality men that aren’t just me. ’cause that does something as well. And that’s something that I think is really, um, atrophied considerably in our culture, right? Whether it’s a young boy or a young woman, but the getting to experience healthy masculine energy in men.

[00:36:00] Outside of just Dad is transformative. It’s something I didn’t have enough of as I was young and why I am like. So addicted to it. Now as an adult in all these men’s groups, it’s just like, wow, it feels so good to be around really high quality men and fathers and whatnot. So these groups that I’m a part of, that’s where I meet these guys who then I want to involve in my children’s lives.

It doesn’t mean they’re, you know, I. Hanging out with them all the time. But we can go places and they can lead us through experiences in the wilderness or uh, outside. And my daughter gets to spend time with, you know, other great men, which I’m not a perfect father. I, there’s a lot I’m good at. There’s a lot I try to be, but, uh, there’s a lot of stuff.

It’s just not in my wheelhouse, right? That, or that, that I’m weak at. That turns out other people can start to fill the gaps in. And so part of the responsibility, I feel, is to yeah, keep exposing my children to other really high quality men. And that’s much easier than when lo and behold I’m spending time with other high [00:37:00] quality men.

’cause then it’s a very easy connection to make.

We gotta pause here for the ever important. We need a dad joke. You got a dad joke for us. I, I am a, a sucker for the puns, so I mean, just these things get me as terrible as they are. Um, so what is a baby computer call his father? What data?

Yeah, have that, that sound effect program into my like soundboard so I can just. Those, those are the ones that are all so great that the, the trouble I have with puns right now is, I’m a pun guy, but my daughter’s vocabulary just isn’t big enough. Ah. So sometimes, you know, puns only work when you get the kind of double reference of the, the word or the sound.

So a lot of my jokes unfortunately go on deaf ears right now. But, um. It’s getting better. [00:38:00] Yeah. My, my wife and I are both pretty quick to the puns and, and sometimes our daughters are getting old. They, they get some of them, but every now and then one goes by and I can just like see the blank stare. It’s like, yeah.

They’re just like, what? Yeah. That one didn’t land like, oh, well, it’s actually this. Yeah. Right. There’s just something universal about dad jokes. I, I, my wife daughter told me I wasn’t actually that funny, so she, she got me a book when I started doing this, so I would have some Oh, that’s great. Yeah. Your jokes kind of sucked out.

Here you go, here’s a book of dad jokes. I was like, ah, 13 year olds. Okay. Right. Now you, you mentioned, uh, the value of that extended command community. Right, because we were talking about. Of taking of yourself and spending time with more other men as well as a way of recharging. I know you lead several men’s groups.

But you were talking about the value of having those other masculine men also around your [00:39:00] children. And I think that’s something that men, men don’t think about. We used to get that through family relationships. If you live close enough, like except over my brother-in-laws and having, you know, my wife’s dad and my brother-in-law, my other brother-in-law and my other, I have a lot of brother-in-laws over there.

My, my wife is one of four. Um. But, you know, having those men around my daughters, I, I always feel like that’s such a great thing when I can have them around them and some other men in my life. But I don’t think it’s something that a lot of us actively think about. ’cause it’s something we used to get through just familial relationships.

Yep. But, you know, how has, how do you see that impacting both you and your children? Yeah. For me, you know, honestly, there’s a relaxation in knowing, okay, I and my family are embedded in a community. So you know that not to be too doom and [00:40:00] gloom, but if anything ever happened to me, I can feel there’s support around us and there’s connection between my children and, and other men in particular, in, in what I’m emphasizing here in that, um.

It’s just also cool ’cause they get to learn things that I don’t know how to teach necessarily, right. That I, I might know a little about this or that, but some of my friends are like, they know about this stuff. So to see them kind of transmitting something, a passion, or a hobby or a skill or something is super cool.

And just to also feel the different types of energy, right? I have a certain energy I bring as a dad and some of my friends bring very different energy, more jokester, you know, whatever that might be. And it’s cool to see that impact my kids. Um, and then I think there’s a piece that right now is mostly conjecture for me ’cause my children are young, like I said, five and in seven months.

But um, from other guys I’ve talked to, it also starts to lay the groundwork for something I think is pretty important in adolescents and teenage [00:41:00] years. For, for our kids is what happens when the issue they’re having is with us, right? So there’s something maybe they wanna bring to us or talk to us about that feels awkward or vulnerable, um, and they don’t know how to do it.

Yet. Having other men, I mean other humans, but men in particular in this case, that they can ask for support or counselor advice around that’s not us, I think is really valuable. Of, Hey, this thing is happening. You know, with with, with my dad, how do I talk to him about the fact that I wanna go to this thing and I, I know he wants me to go to this thing.

And my sense is building the scaffolding for that so they have trusted supports outside of me is gonna be really valuable. Um, because in case there’s ever something they need to process with me, but it feels like too much of a leap to, to bring it there initially. Um. Is one of the things that I’m like excited about.

So it’s not so much like offloading [00:42:00] parenting, but knowing that they have other wise voices they can go to. I think this is where extended family used to be particularly. It can be really powerful, right? Uncles and aunts and people you feel close to that know you and your family, but also aren’t in the day-to-day of it.

So don’t get triggered by the same things. I think grandparents are good for this too. Like the, the love gets to flow from a slightly different place. ’cause they’re not the ones that are having to get you out the door at 9:00 AM and, you know, do that battle every day in a sense. Um, so yeah, I, I just see it really.

Um, it’s, it’s something I know I wanted more of, and the few occasions I did have that as a kid were deeply impactful. To, to feel someone else’s presence that just cared about me and was a safe space that I could bring questions to or talk to or learn things from. Um, so again, I’m just like super passionate about, okay, how do I keep creating these opportunities for my family, for my kids to, to do that?

And yeah, so both [00:43:00] relaxes me and I see it as a, as a gift for them. ’cause they get to receive even more wisdom in, in other forms. Gentlemen, if your relationships are not where you want ’em to be, I want you to know I got you. Relationships take a lot of work and can fall on the back burner pretty easily.

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Now I know a lot of dads are really gonna struggle with the idea of trying to break off some time, right? To go spend time with other men. Like I said, the first thing as men, we sacrifice is us, right? It’s the health, it’s the support, it’s the relationships outside of that familial [00:44:00] bond. Um, I know a lot of guys are gonna struggle with the idea of.

Taking a half a day or a day entirely or something like that. Um, let’s, let’s talk about the value of just the self care when it comes to taking maybe an hour every day or four or five days a week to go work out, right? Because that is the first, it’s ction of the workout. How does that one hour. Well spent, you know, and guys, you don’t have to be a gym rat.

I, I, I’m the kind of guy who likes to work out for two and a half hours straight. You don’t have to do that at 45. I don’t do that as often as I used to. Uh, you can get a great workout in 30, 45 minutes.

Yeah. How does that

value back into your family? For the guys that are listening. Yeah, for me, uh, I’ll, I’ll give a particular cut that’s twofold here of, you know, we just had my son last year and, um, I turned 44 when he was [00:45:00] born, so a little older as a father.

And, um, I wanna be alive for as long as I can. To enjoy him and support him in his life. And I have a dream that is attainable, but you know, means like it starts now as I’ll be 45 this year of being a grandfather. And if my kids wait as long as I did, you know, I’m gonna be up there. I’m going to be up there.

There are plenty of people I’ve met in my life. Some, you know, some parts are within our control, some are not. But for me, health at this point is me taking responsibility for that of, Ooh, I wanna start investing in my body now so that I can be an energetic mobile. I. Father and grandfather as long as I can be.

And yeah, with a young boy, I’m like, I can feel, I need to have energy in my body to tussle with this kid. He loves physicality and play right, even more than my daughter did. And so for me, there’s, I wanna have a body, I. [00:46:00] That doesn’t prevent me from engaging with him in the ways he wants and needs. So I consider it an investment in that sense.

And, um, so personally for me, my father’s alive, he’s going, he turning 80. He did not care for his body. And, um, he’s in a home now and not very mobile. And it’s, it’s a lot on me and my siblings to be managing his care and we can’t do it at home. And. It’s like stressful, right? It’s a stressful thing. So I also consider it of, okay, I want, I want to be as healthy as I can be, as long as I can be.

So my children don’t have to worry about that to some extent, right? That, oh yeah, I can still walk myself. I can still do some basic stuff. So I think these things are super important. And again, the other thing it does is our kids are always learning for us, from us. They learn their priorities from our priorities.

It’s very simple. So if I’m not prioritizing [00:47:00] my wellbeing, health and community and friendships, it’s very easy for our children to internalize that. Right? And we, we often see this, but if I am prioritizing my health, it rubs off on my kids, right? And then it gi actually gives us other opportunities to connect where they can come along and we can go for a run.

My, my little, my daughter and I just started running around a track and. Super fun for her. And I’m like, I could see this being a thing for us. It’s like it keeps me fit and it’s a way for us to bond. Um, and same thing, particularly as kids get older, you know, it doesn’t have to always explicitly be, um, I’m going away with my men, but what does it mean to bring my son or daughter with us camping?

And they actually get to come along and be in that field, uh, uh, of kind of adulthood in a sense, and learn some things, uh, uh, about what it means. So, um, I think that’s a really big one. That is one of the easiest for us guys to drop, particularly if you don’t, [00:48:00] I work from home, so I have a lot more flexibility than most men, but I know guys, you know, they’re leaving for work.

7:00 AM they’re not getting back to like 7:00 PM It’s like, where, where do you even fit in? Fitness. Um, so I, I get it. You know, I get what a challenge it is, but it does not handle itself. And, you know, you and I are similar age, and this is the age where, uh, there’s not unlimited funds on that credit card anymore.

Like, you know, you can just kind of push yourself so hard as a man, man, but it’s around our mid forties that things really start to catch up with us, and it’s not a guarantee or automatic anymore. Like we don’t just have health, it’s. This is like a tender flame I have to cultivate now and actually put time and energy into, and if I do right, I’ve been shocked.

I’ve met my guys in their eighties. I mean, I kid you not men in their eighties who are fitter and more mobile than I am, and they just never [00:49:00] stopped moving and taking care of their health. So when I meet men like that, I’m like, oh my God, that’s what I wanna be when I grow up. I just, okay, how do I do this?

How do I do this? How do I do this? ’cause I wanna be able to enjoy. Both my own life and the lives of my kids, and hopefully their kids to my full capacity. And without a healthy body, that that’s gonna be hard. And, and so, um, it’s taking some, you know, buy-in from my wife. But yeah, you know, some days I can only carve out 15 minutes, but I was like, okay, I gotta learn some exercises and stuff.

Even if I just have 15 minutes in this newborn phase, I’m keeping my body moving in the right direction. And as time opens up, you know, I can do longer things, more like an hour. Um, but I’ve had no excuse and I’ve stuck with it, and I feel better than ever. And I, I’ve had more resource, um, to be present, you know, for my kids in that way.

So yeah, I’m super passionate about that one. And again. Other men can help hold us accountable for that as well. Right. Of, you know, so I, I’m in a chat group with, you know, the guy I was talking [00:50:00] about here, if we just message each other when we’re gonna work out or how our workout went, and it’s wild how much fun accountability and how much momentum it, it generates when it’s like, oh my God, so and so just worked out and uh, you know, they just got a personal best or did this new thing and then I feel inspired to keep mine going.

Uh, it’s one of the great hacks I think of this kind of community. Well, I’ll, I’ll share. Have you seen that? Have you done man makers before? No. I’ll, I’ll share that one with you off camera. You want 15 minutes of a workout? Cool. We’ll do it. Sweet. No, I’m, that’s great. I am trying to, ’cause that’s, that’s the first thing I always like go, right.

So I’m trying to be more cognizant of that at 45, working from home, making sure I’m, I’m getting back into exercising to make sure I am exercising because I used to be. A deep gym, bro. Like I, I was in the gym six days a week or more. Uh, yeah, two and a half hours at a time. And then life got crazy and I started running my own thing and doing [00:51:00] my own thing.

And it’s like, oh, look, now I work 17 hour days and barely ever leave my house. Right? So yeah, we, yeah. And guys, so valuable. And here’s the question, right? All, all men will say, I’ll die for my kids. I’ve, I’ve never met a man who won’t say that.

Yeah.

Will you live for ’em enough to walk your daughter down the aisle without a help?

So good. Will you for them enough to be able to get on the ground with your grandchildren and play with them and laugh and have fun with them on the ground. Yeah. Right. Do you love ’em that much? Dying’s easy. Do you love ’em enough to take enough care of yourself to be able to do that? Right. And that’s something I, I’m constantly asking myself.

That’s not a shame on anybody else. That’s, that’s one of those things I play in my head over and over again. It’s like. I don’t have time to work out someday. I’m gonna have grandkids. I wanna walk both my daughters down the aisle and I’ve beat the crap out of my body. So at 45 I got a lot of pain already, so I was like, man, I gotta do everything I can now.[00:52:00]

Right. That’s such, so wise. What love frame? Um, what’s the best thing about being a dad? Um, the day to day. Of looking into my kids’ eyes and there’s more looking back at me. There’s that, there’s, there’s more soul human, them there, like their personality, whatever that ineffable thing is. It just, it blows me away.

You know? I, I do work from home. I do have to travel a little bit, and it’s wild how, you know, particularly in the, the early couple years, but even with my daughter now, um. Five days away, I come back and it’s like, oh yeah, you’re different. Something is different. You can do something. You’re relating something, there’s a new language structure.

Your body’s moving in a different way sometimes in these very short periods of time. So for me, getting to witness beyond they’re unfolding firsthand is just like, there’s [00:53:00] literally nothing better. Like, no, nothing more gratifying than. Getting to discover this human being who I like to think I have a lot of influence on, but they’re also just their own person who has their own way of being and karma in the world and whatnot.

And, uh, just getting to know them more and more every day. Right? When, when your kid says something and you’re like, where did that come from? That’s incredible. Just blows me away. So I, I love the riches of, of, of seeing them grow and unfold. And as we were talking about at the beginning of the conversation, all happened so quickly.

Yeah. I missed, I missed second daughter learning to talk. I was on a business trip. I was down on the other side of the company, supervi Country, supervising a new project for the company I worked for. And I, I was Zoom calling with my wife every night and uh, I was sitting there talking to my wife, my oldest daughter.

And all of a sudden this streak goes by [00:54:00] the camera. I’m like, wait, what? What was that? I was like, oh, that was, that was Henley. I was like, she wasn’t even walking when I left. And now she just ran by the camera. We got like two weeks. Uh, and, but like that night I got off the Zoom call and it just tore at me the fact that, mm-hmm, I missed this moment.

And it was that realization of. Oh my goodness, this happened so quick. It’s just, it’s a flash. We think about, you know, one to 18 or zero to 18, right. As, yeah. And like we said, there’s so much that happens in those years, but there’s also the years after that. But there is so much that happens in those first 18 years as our focus most of the time, and it goes by so quick.

Sure does. That’s, uh, yeah, it, it’s fun to watch them become them, uh, at at 10. That’s a great way to put it. Yeah. Almo almost [00:55:00] 11. I gotta make that right in case she hears this almost 11-year-old and a 13-year-old watching them diverge into their own personalities and their own likes and interests and is so much fun.

At this time, I don’t wanna miss anything with them. Jason. Yeah. It’s funny. Joys, let me ask you, what if, if the audience didn’t catch the rest of this, right? They’re just only half listening to this because 80% of podcast listeners are listening like in the car or on the treadmill. Yeah. Right. It’s something you, you listen to podcasts while you’re doing things.

So here at this moment, if they tuned out for parts of this, what do you want to hear? The men listening. What did that with good English. What do you want the men listening to hear? They cut nothing else outta this whole conversation. What do you want those men to hear? Right now? Taking care of yourself is taking care of your family, right?

[00:56:00] I mean, it’s the platitude. Put the oxygen mask on yourself first there. There’s a reason for that. And. The state of our nervous system, how we feel in our bodies is one of the greatest gifts we can give to our kids. ’cause it teaches them a pathway and a model for how we want them to feel in their bodies.

Good, connected, energized, present. Not just tired, burden, stressed, overwhelmed, whatever. These different things oftentimes happen for us guys, but that, hey, yeah, daddy has relationships with friends. ’cause they’re valuable to me outside of the family. I want you to have valuable relationships too. Um, these things matter, I think as we’re grown up.

So yeah, taking care of yourself is you taking care of your family. Gentlemen, thanks for joining us today on the Dad Hatch. Shes podcast, uh, for Jason and myself, we appreciate you joining for the conversation. Dad Hatch, shes podcast is a community of dads [00:57:00] just navigating life’s challenges Together. We, there’s, there’s so much value in understanding that you’re not doing this dad thing alone.

I started the show ’cause I’ve talked to men on four different continents. It doesn’t matter where they’re from or what their background is. Dads can come together on being dads, and we need to, that’s so important for your journey as a father. You’re not alone. There are men who will connect with you, who will relate to you and bond with you just over the fact that you’re a parent.

So be sure and plug in. Until next time, laugh, learn and live the dad [00:58:00] life.