Parenting with Presence: How Dads Can Truly Show Up for Their Children

D Brent Dowlen: [00:00:00] Oliver, you know, every dad has that story that just cracks ’em up. You, you think about it to yourself and you just start to smile and people are like, whatcha thinking about? Right? Because you’re, you’re just remembering something that happened in your journey as a dad. So what is your dad funny story,

Oliver Marcelle: man, I have, so this is not gonna sound funny as I’m telling it, it’s gonna sound scary, but it just kind of goes to show the, um, just the atmosphere of our home as, especially when my son was small, there was always a lot of joking and always a lot of laughter.

My son is very witty still to this day, thinks quick on his feet, um, and is, you know, just playful around certain things, right? And so he was probably about, maybe I. [00:01:00] Three, maybe three. And, um, there’s a store that I would frequent during that time of life, uh, called K and g. And so twofold story, right? So one, we’re in K and g.

I’m with him by myself. I’m rolling them around in the, uh, cart and we bump into Dion Sanders. This is at the time when Dion Sanders was playing for the Ravens. So we bump into Dion Sanders, he’s in there with two other guys. They’re buying suits. And so I go up to him and I say, um, man, I’m a fan of what you do.

And he points to my son and he was like, I’m a fan of what you do. Talking about being a dad. Yeah. So that was pretty cool. We’re in that same story. Here’s the same story. Here’s the scary part of it. Now I’m in there with my son and my wife and, and Justin would play hide and go seek. I. Right. He just, you want to hide.

We would always play [00:02:00] hide and go seek in the house. He decides he wants to play hide and go seek in the store without telling anybody. So I, I turn and, you know, kids are quick, right? You can turn for what seems like a second and turn back around and he’s gone. So I’m like, uh, that’s not good. And so we’re, you know, I’m running around the store.

I’m, I’m looking. I’m like, okay. I know he couldn’t have left the store. It’s too big. But I go outside anyway, I do all this stuff, right? Long story short, he is in a, uh, you know how they had the turn style of clothing, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. He’s in the middle of one of the turnstiles of clothing. And I mean, he is laughing hysterically like, I got you.

You couldn’t find me. And we, and we, and we’re pulling our hair out, you know, I’m [00:03:00] saying we’re pulling our hair out and this guy is cracking up laughing like I finally beat dad at, at, at hide and go seek. So I always remember that one for the scary part, but one for just like, just how kind of carefree he was and just, he was just willing to kind of still take that hide and go seek competition anywhere we go.

So that’s, that, that’s, uh, that’s one that stands out. When you asked me about telling a story, that’s immediately what came to mind.

D Brent Dowlen: Oh, that in

Oliver Marcelle: the Deion Sanders moment?

D Brent Dowlen: Yeah. Yeah. That, that’s one of those, uh, dad stories where you’re like, if I find you, I may kill you. Yeah, exactly. You’re, you’re losing your mind.

Your kid’s having the time of their life and you’re like,

Oliver Marcelle: man, I mean, he is laughing hysterically. Like, I finally, I got him.

D Brent Dowlen: He couldn’t find you. He has no idea. No idea what he was doing to you.

Oliver Marcelle: No idea. Right? And what’s crazy is with kids man, and I don’t, I don’t know how many dads experienced this, but as, [00:04:00] as frustrating and as scary as that was, to just see him sitting there laughing hysterically for a split second.

Yeah, I was mad. But then like, you know who, who doesn’t melt? Oh, seeing a 3-year-old, just like,

you know, I was like, bro, this is not, this is funny to you, but this you’ll realize later on in life, this was not a funny moment.

D Brent Dowlen: All of you are just listening to this. You need to jump onto the video platform and watch Oliver doing the little dance while he is doing the hunt. Right? Worth of view, view.

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Welcome to the Dad Hatch Shenanigans podcast, the Unfiltered Truth about being a dad, real dad’s real stories, unfiltered canon conversations on the Fatherhood. I’m your host, Brent Allen, and my guest today is my dear friend Oliver. Marcel Oliver wears a lot of hats, but I’ll let him break that down for you just a little bit farther.

Oliver, welcome to the show.

Oliver Marcelle: Thank you, man. Always a pleasure to get to hang out with you, man, and this, this is a really cool. Uh, really cool thing you’re doing here, man, that you know, dads unite,

D Brent Dowlen: right? It, it is just crazy. It’s a no matter where you go, if you find another dad, like you can totally find a friend, even if it’s for a short time.

Like, dads just love talking to other dads.

Oliver Marcelle: Mm-hmm.

D Brent Dowlen: And it’s crazy how [00:08:00] often we don’t actually talk to each other, but we’ll dive into that a little bit more. It’s the opening of the show. Right. And the key question on this show is you gotta get the dad hat story. Explain your hat, sir.

Oliver Marcelle: Indeed. So I’m, so, I’m wearing a, uh, a bucket hat.

Um, uh, buddy of mine owns a golf apparel company and it, and it’s that, it’s one of his hats. But I’ve always, so the reason why I picked this is I’ve always wanted to go fishing, believe it or not. Fun fact, I have never been fishing. And so I was telling, I was telling my wife, I was like, man, I feel like that’s an activity that a father and son should do.

So I gotta get all my stuff together so that one day me and Justin can go fishing. Now Grant, granted, my son is 22 years old, so like we’re, it’s a talk about late start. This will be a late start, but I was like, you know, I need, [00:09:00] you know, one of them hats that you kind of wear to do that in order to do that.

And, and my buddy’s like, man, I got the perfect hat for you. And so he, he gave me a couple of these. Yep. So I’m, I’ll be wearing this. And one, we finally take that fishing trip.

D Brent Dowlen: Trip. I tell you what, you and Denise come out and visit and, uh, Abby and I will take you fishing.

Oliver Marcelle: Man, that’d be awesome. I don’t even like that.

One to go fishing, two to come get, come, hang out with y’all, man, that would be awesome,

D Brent Dowlen: right? Yeah. Like the girls were telling me, uh, like I said, guys, Oliver is a friend. Oliver has been on my other podcast. Oliver has spoken to my conferences. We met several years ago, and it has just been joyful to have him in my life.

Uh, Oliver keeps me honest, but my kids were telling me, he is like, oh wait, you’re gonna go record Oliver? Tell him to come visit. Tell him we all love him, man. Mom said, great. Bake you another pie.

Oliver Marcelle: I love it, man. Your family is [00:10:00] so awesome. Please give them my love. A as well, man. Good stuff, man.

D Brent Dowlen: But yeah.

Oliver Marcelle: Hey, I’m, I’m gonna have to take you up on that.

We gotta get, I gotta get out there.

D Brent Dowlen: I took you to lunch. You didn’t gotta go fishing. Fishing. I would’ve brought the fishing poles.

Oliver Marcelle: I know, exactly. That’s true. We could’ve, we could’ve done that while we were out there. Yeah. But yeah, so that’s fun. Fact, man, I’ve never been fishing so. Um, that’s on my bucket list.

D Brent Dowlen: That’s, that’s, it’s so funny because like, I don’t actually like fishing really? Abby likes to fish, so I, and I like to go hang out with Abby, so we go fishing. Mm-hmm. I’m actually missing fishing right now. We haven’t been fishing this year. ’cause she turned 13 and she’s not doing mornings as well as she once did, uh, those early morning fishing trips that weren’t a big deal last year.

Mm-hmm. Little, little rougher this year. She’s not little

Oliver Marcelle: tough. Yeah.

D Brent Dowlen: So we, we haven’t been fishing yet. I actually found myself yesterday. I was like, man, even if Abby doesn’t wanna go fish, I’m [00:11:00] gonna go fish. ’cause I’ve been going fishing every spring and all through the summer for the last like four years with her.

Mm-hmm. And all of a sudden we haven’t gotten any gun fishing. And I don’t even like to fish generally.

Oliver Marcelle: Right.

D Brent Dowlen: But I have such a good time just hanging out with her. And I, we, we, like, we fish, we, the little one doesn’t go with me because Henley does not have the patience. But Abby and I will sit there and hardly say a word for like two hours and just fish.

Oliver Marcelle: Yep. And there’s a lesson there too, man. So there’s things as dads that, that we do, man, that might not have been paramount on our list, but because the kids love it and it creates a level of bonding, it’s a bonding opportunity. Man, we, we, we all in,

D Brent Dowlen: oh, so I gotta, I gotta throw a quick dad story here. I said, you know, dads are a universal thing, right?

Mm-hmm. So, several years ago, I took my kids on vacation and my brother and I took them camping for the first time in the mountains of Colorado. And my brother is the one who introduced them to fishing. ’cause I was never, [00:12:00] and he’s always been a fisherman. And after that trip, Abby had such a good time, she wanted to go, right?

Mm-hmm. So I went to, I’m like, okay, I hate fishing. I’ve always hated fishing. And I didn’t like fishing when my dad, like he’d take us. I hated fishing. I thought, you know what, Abby wants to fish. I like, this is a cheap investment for me to spend some money. It’s like we’re not hardcore fishermen or anything, so mm-hmm.

Cheap investment for us to spend some good quality time to together. So I went to Walmart and I’m looking like, you know, I’m in the fishing aisle, Walmart, and I’m like, I don’t even know what I know. That’s a fishing rod,

Oliver Marcelle: right?

D Brent Dowlen: Fishing. And there was this older gentleman in the fishing aisle by himself and I walked up and I said, excuse me sir, I’m sorry to bother you.

I just got back from vacation and my brother took me and my daughter fishing and she loves fishing. I said, I hate fishing. I don’t know anything about fishing, but she loved fishing and so I need to buy stuff so I can take her fishing [00:13:00] and have time with her. And this, like, this guy had be, you know, close to 70.

Mm-hmm. Big grin. And he said, alright son, I’ll set you up. Nice. You can know. And that man spent the next 40 minutes with me in the aisle at Walmart and helped me totally get everything I needed. It’s like, okay, around here we got this kind of fish and blah, blah, blah. Like, he spent 40 minutes of his time teaching me the things I needed to know about fishing from the basics so that I could take my daughter fishing.

Oliver Marcelle: That’s awesome,

D Brent Dowlen: man. A universal total stranger. Yep. Yep.

Oliver Marcelle: He kicked in, he kicked in the dad mode.

D Brent Dowlen: Sorry guys. That’s, that was, yeah. So Oliver, how many kids, boys, girls? What? We got

Oliver Marcelle: three. Three kids. Uh, two daughters. And one son. And a grandson. Ooh. So, yep. Three kids and a grandchild. So we’re, [00:14:00] we’re in a new stage of life hanging out with him and, and, uh, kind of.

Kind of reliving some of, some of that era with him because we spend a significant time, or I say he spends a sign significant time with us, a significant amount of time with us. And so we kind of get to see some things and kind of relive some stages in life. Um, and so that’s pretty cool.

D Brent Dowlen: Now, I, I, I love, like, I, I keep up with you on social media, so I, I get to see the post you make about picking him up and playing with him.

Oliver Marcelle: It’s Yeah, huge. Yep. He’s getting big too, man. Growing like a weed.

D Brent Dowlen: You, you’ve got grandkids, so you have this sort of perspective that like, I don’t yet, ’cause mine are 10 and 13. Mm-hmm. What is the best thing about being a dad?

Oliver Marcelle: Man, I don’t, I don’t know if there’s one thing that I could pull out in Stamp as the best, but if I have to pick one, I’d say watching, watching them [00:15:00] grasp something that you’ve been.

Aiming to impart is a really great feeling. And that could be anything. I mean, that could be something as simple as, you know, like for my grandson right now, he, you know, he’s writing his name, he’s doing some different things. Like it could be something as, as simple air quotes as that, or as complex as just a, uh, a life lesson, you know, but just kind of watching them grasp that and implement it.

And it happens in all stages of life, right? So I’m seeing it with my grandson, who’s five, but I’m also seeing it with my oldest, who is 35 and is about to graduate with her master’s. And she’s starting her career and she’s kind of going through this, um. This period of time with the, with the job that she’s doing and doing the, [00:16:00] like salary negotiation and all these different, like big grownup stuff, right?

And just kind of watching them do that man is just, it’s really cool to see some of the stuff that you talk about actually play out in their lives. So

D Brent Dowlen: I just realized I got totally sidetracked and got ahead of myself for all the dads listening to this. Tell us a little bit about who Oliver Marcel is.

Tell us who you are.

Oliver Marcelle: Sure, man. I’m, you know, obviously a, a dad. I’m, I’m, I’m a husband. I’m am a, a son, you know what I mean? And so, kind of watching how my dad did some things has kind of shaped the way that I do things. Um, at this season in my life, I, I, I work with couples, uh, I work with men, uh, speaker, author, and coach in the relationship building space in the men’s in Richmond space.

And so. Very passionate about, uh, seeing men win and seeing couples win. And so that’s, that’s the hat that [00:17:00] I wear, uh, currently in this season of my life. Uh, my wife and I are enjoying what that’s bringing to our lives, um, enjoying what Grandparenting is bringing to our lives as well. And so those are a few of the few of the hats that I wear.

D Brent Dowlen: I love that you phrased it that way and not just because it’s the name of the show, but I mean that’s, that is the heart of the show, right? Is we wear so many different hats throughout the seasons of our lives. And especially as a father, all the things you learn and embrace all the different roles you play, uh, and that’s there, there is so much depth to fatherhood and all the roles you’ll play as a dad, that, you know that that’s, that’s the whole point behind the show and I hope people get that.

I talk about has metaphorically, even if I wear a big stupid red hat. That my daughter’s love. My wife’s not real sure about, but you know, dad, you need to wear that everywhere. I was like, you know? [00:18:00]

Oliver Marcelle: Right.

D Brent Dowlen: But, uh, there is so much like, so Oliver and I had to have a conversation before the show started ’cause like there was just so much to talk about in the space of being a dad.

Yeah. And so instead of coming with a totally preset idea, guys we’re, we’re doing this one totally offhand. We actually Googled, or I Googled right before the show. What is the number one question dads have? Mm-hmm. Because Oliver is somebody I talk to and I look up to. Um, I actually got asked the other day on an, on my other podcast is like, well, well who do you look up to on, you know, when it comes to this is like continual learning.

I was in a, doing a guest interview on someone else’s show. And Oliver and Denise’s channel is one of the places I go to take care of my relationship because they’ve always got amazing stuff I’m learning from them. But Oliver is that one of, also one of those friends that I call, I’m like, we kick ideas around.[00:19:00]

Yeah. And so we wanted to make sure that we gave you guys something really great in this episode. So today we’re gonna talk about balancing your role as provider or the person who takes care of your family with actually being present in the lives of your kids, particularly because that is the number one according to Google.

And Chachi Bt, I looked this up on a couple different platforms, like that is like the most universal questions, uh, especially young dads have, or dads who are in those early ages. Mm-hmm. So we’re gonna, we’re gonna dive into that and we may not come up with the perfect answer for your situation, but we’re certainly gonna give it our best.

Oliver Marcelle: Indeed.

D Brent Dowlen: So Oliver, you are at a farther stage in life than I am with having a grandchildren. Now, and so you’ve already, you’ve got adult kids and I know, like, I, I struggle with this myself, right. I’m always trying to balance, like if you ask my kids, I’m always working and as a business owner, you, you know.[00:20:00]

Yep. Right? Yep. Uh, one of the things, big differences, I, I know a lot of guys who work nine to five jobs, like everyday jobs, and there’s nothing wrong with being a guy who works for another company. Right. Spent a lot of years doing it. Mm-hmm. And I was always pretty busy. I worked a lot of long days, I worked a lot of overtime.

But becoming a business owner, I work pretty much seven days a week. Um Right. I rarely ever take time off. And if you ask my kids, I’m always working. Mm-hmm. So getting some years on this farther than I have with your kids as adults now, and actually have got to interface with them as adults, you know? How did you try and balance that?

Oliver Marcelle: So I’m, I’m, I’m kind of answering this in hindsight. So some of this is what I did mixed with what I wish I did. So just to give that, give that level of, uh, disclaimer beforehand. But, um, like you was in the corporate space, worked a a [00:21:00] ton of hours in the corporate space and what I tried to do was really have these pockets of time that were non-negotiable.

So even if, even if Sunday afternoon was just the only day or time that I knew I was gonna be available to do something, I tried not to put anything else in that time so that way I could say, you know, say they, you know, one of them would come to me and say, Hey, can we do x, y, Z today? And it’s Tuesday, excuse me.

And I’m like, well, no, I can’t do that today, but let’s, let’s do it on Sunday afternoon. I knew that they could at least have something to look forward to, and I, I didn’t want to break that. Like, I didn’t want to, I didn’t want Sunday afternoon to come and be like, oh, you know, sorry, we can’t do it. So that, that’s something that I, that I, that I really tried to do.

Something I wish I did was have more of those non-negotiable pockets [00:22:00] because, and it’s tough, man. I, I heard somebody talking not too long ago saying how in the beginning of your journey as a parent, there’re actually going to be these sacrificial moments where you are trading time with them for time to provide for them.

And there was a lot of kind of back and forth around how people felt about that, right? Because

wearing the hat where like you can’t just go fishing with them. 12 hours a day, because then when it’s time for dinner, you won’t have nothing to feed them. Right. You know? So it’s that, it’s that balance. But having said that, what I wish I had was more of those pockets, um, which I think being an entrepreneur has given me, right?

So [00:23:00] now I do have these pockets where I can say, okay, let me see if I have anything happening Tuesday afternoon. And if I don’t, I can probably, you know, make this happen. So for me, that’s, that’s part of what I did. And there’s some things I really wish I had done more of, but I try to, um, and again, we talked about this before, before, uh, we started recording.

I, I have been notoriously, uh, hard on myself, right. May maybe to a fault as it relates to evaluating my successes. I’m doing that in air quotes as a dad. One of the things that I really did try to do was, was have these non-negotiable times. And so I would say to anybody who’s trying to establish some level of balance and may, and maybe I train, maybe I changed that word from balance to harmony.

’cause balance is tough, right? Balance for some, in some people’s minds denotes [00:24:00] some level of, of evenness. And I don’t know that you achieve, I don’t know if you’ve achieved, if you achieve that, right? So, but harmony in the sense of the things that are important to you are getting the right level of energy.

Behind how you address them, right? So if your marriage is important, if your kids are important, if your career is important, if church is important, like all of those things were playing out at the same time in my life, right? And so, um, church musicians, so I was out on the weekends and so even the Sunday thing, I had to really be intentional because for the be beginning part of Sundays, I’d probably be playing somewhere.

So I really had to make sure that if I said, okay, Sunday afternoon, we’re gonna do X, Y, z had to make sure that I was getting out of that space in time, I was getting home at, in time, I was doing certain things right. And so it kind of held me accountable to a certain degree, but I would say to anybody who’s trying to do that and find that harmony, create [00:25:00] space with intention.

How about that?

D Brent Dowlen: I, I think I have to, I I like that you address that. The word balance isn’t necessarily the best word for that. And I mean, people, people can argue semantics, all they want. It’s like balance, harmony, right. But like in my life as, that’s one of the things I have tried because I, I don’t, I don’t know, there is balance.

If you do anything well, there’s very rarely ever a balance. Mm-hmm. Right? If you talk to like some of the biggest entrepreneurs in the world, uh, names that are household names like Elon Musk, whether you like him or not, or Alex or Mosey, they’ll tell you the balance isn’t a legitimate thing. Mm-hmm.

You’re people who are really successful at something. There’s not balance, there’s intentionality. And I, I’ve talked to some other entrepreneurs who are [00:26:00] business owners as well over the years, as well as, uh, people who don’t own businesses Right. And work normal nine to five jobs, or let’s be, let’s be honest, there aren’t a lot of nine to five.

It’s more like six to four or six three day here. Mm-hmm. I, I’m 45 years old. I have never started work at 9:00 AM in my life. I, I don’t, it’s not like a banker’s hours or I, I dunno where that comes from. Mm-hmm. I’ve been starting my day, like having to be at wherever I work at 6:00 AM since I was 16.

Oliver Marcelle: Wow.

D Brent Dowlen: Um, yeah. I’ve, I’ve never had a job where I started later than 6:00 PM or 6:00 AM unless I was working like a swing shift or a graveyard shift. Mm-hmm. Um, but that is one of the common things I see with a lot of the men I’ve talked to about this is balance is a misnomer as much as intentionality in the time you do have.

Yeah. So like one of the things I’ve been doing for years with my daughters is we [00:27:00] have daddy daughter night every week light clockwork. And we’ve had to change it the night of the week a couple times. Now dealing with like as my daughters are getting older, they have things they go to like youth group on Wednesday nights now ’cause they’re old enough to be in that and basketball practice, right?

Mm-hmm. Things that they didn’t use to have. So we’ve had to move that night a couple times, but one night a week when the clock hits four, I turn off everything. Mm-hmm. Until they go to bed. There is nothing else. Right. Like I don’t help cook dinner. Unless doing something like those, those are usually junk food nights, so.

Mm-hmm. We’ll, uh, taquitos or STOs, whatever you wanna call ’em in, into the oven, the air fryer or something. Um, that’s about as far as like actual, like I don’t help around the house. I don’t help my wife do anything. My wife’s not even invited. Like if, if her and my mom want to hang out and watch a movie with us mm-hmm.

They can, but we’re, the girls [00:28:00] are picking the movie whether they like it or not. It’s like, we’re not negotiating on who likes what, like it’s their night. Mm-hmm. My wife and my mom will go watch their shows or they’ll leave, go to dinner or something half the time because that’s, that’s us. And I am like vicious, almost like I have run off before.

It’s like, no, this is my time period. Wow.

Oliver Marcelle: Yeah. Answer my, and that’s what intention looks like,

D Brent Dowlen: right? I don’t answer my phone unless it’s an emergency. I don’t scroll on social media. Mm-hmm. I, it is us. And that might look like playing Xbox for a little while and then watching a movie that might look like going and getting ice cream or going and doing something.

Right. But those about four and a half, five hours. Mm-hmm. Our time period. Nothing else happens there. Now I’d like to do it for a while. I was really good. Like Abby and I would go fishing every week. Mm-hmm. Least week. We’d get up early in the [00:29:00] morning and that’s what I did on that morning. And we might be out for three hours or four hours.

Uh, now I try to either do that or like we go like hiking. Mm-hmm. So I’m trying to get more of those, like you said, a little more. Yeah. But about being intentional with the time you have. Because I don’t think as a dad trying to take care of your family, I don’t know that you get all the time Right. That there is a balance.

You have to work a set amount, amount of hours to make enough money, especially these days. You’re right. So much harder these days to make enough money to make a living, much less make a good living. Right. And so I know there’s a lot of guys out there who are working a lot of extra hours right now. I know a lot of guys who are like 40 hour a week.

What’s that

Oliver Marcelle: exactly? Yeah. It’s not enough.

D Brent Dowlen: Three year, I had a three year time period where I worked 60 hour weeks for three years. Yeah. So [00:30:00] I think it’s about intentionality with the time you have. But I think setting aside time.

Oliver Marcelle: Yeah.

D Brent Dowlen: And I think

Oliver Marcelle: too, I think along with the intention, ’cause you, for, for anybody who has a question about what intention looks like, you just, you just gave a phenomenal example.

Like that’s what intention looks like. That’s what non-negotiable looks like. Right. With what you’re doing with the girls. And um, I think too, supplementing that with I. Talking to them, and this is where I don’t think I did enough of when they were growing up, is there, there’re gonna be moments where you have this intentional time and then there’re gonna be moments where you know your time is going to be spent elsewhere.

But they need to know that their level of importance is not, um, is not represented by the time that you’re away, right? [00:31:00] So yes, I gotta be, I gotta be down here to do this six hour project, which means I’m not going be able to do X, Y, Z, but that doesn’t mean that you’re not still as important to me and we’ll do this other thing.

You know what I mean? Like just having that. ’cause sometimes you have the intentional time, but then let’s say the intentional time is only one night a week. And the other six nights of the week, like there is no interaction at all. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? And, and, and I’m not, I’m not knocking anybody, but I’m just saying that’s sometimes how it happens.

’cause you’re just so busy that you’re just running, running and gunning and running and gunning and that you, you pray that the anticipation of that next night, next week will be enough to keep them and sometimes it might not be. Right. So those moments where you can, you’re taking a break to get coffee or those moments where you’re, uh, you, you’re coming out of a meeting, [00:32:00] right.

And you can call ’em real quick, FaceTime ’em real quick for two seconds on the way to your next meeting. Like those little things that you can kind of put in place. I don’t think I did that enough when they were small.

D Brent Dowlen: I didn’t know that all those options were available.

Oliver Marcelle: Oh yeah. FaceTime was an option.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, let me think back. So, but the things that I did have access to, I don’t think I really did that as much as I probably could have.

D Brent Dowlen: And it is so. For all the dads out there listening, right. We have different agents of dads at different stages listening, and one of the interesting things is there is a generational change that is happening as we have redefined being a dad in the modern era because the,

the pressure to be intentionally involved with your children is more now and, and I [00:33:00] think this is a good change. I think this is a good change. Let me throw that out there before people freak out. But I think there is, from a generational standpoint, right? I was very blessed. My dad was very involved in my life.

He was very active. But I also know that that was the exception. I’m a Gen Xer and that was an exception that my father was that involved in my life and that present in my life all the time. And it had a lot to do with who he is and what he did. So he, he could actually manage his schedule a little more that way, but Right.

The boomer generation, my parents’ generation, their parents, there wasn’t an expectation that, right. Your dad, your dad went to work and you knew he loved you because he went to work and put a roof over your head and shoes on your feet. Yeah. Right. That was the expectation level. [00:34:00] Mm-hmm. And that’s changed drastically, like I said, I think for the better.

But that has changed drastically. You wouldn’t have had this conversation with the boomer generation because that’s not the example they had. Right. Right. And that’s

Oliver Marcelle: me too,

D Brent Dowlen: right? Born the boomer generation. Those of us in Gen X, right? Mm-hmm. We were, there were a bunch of latchkey kids in our generations.

That’s why people like, get a kick out of our generation because we were almost feral. Our parents sent us out when the sun came up, and we came back when the lights came on and mm-hmm. And we could cook for ourselves by the time, like, I, I think we baby, like I, I’ve been guilty of babying my kids some in that aspect.

Mm-hmm. By the time I’m 13, I could cook like six course meals.

Oliver Marcelle: Right.

D Brent Dowlen: But I also like to cook. Um, so you look at that generational effect, now we’re expecting parents to be dads to be much more involved at a time when it costs a lot more [00:35:00] Right. To survive. Right. So

Oliver Marcelle: that’s interesting too, man, that poses a

D Brent Dowlen: right, like Facebook and stuff like that.

Mm-hmm.

Oliver Marcelle: It, it poses a interesting question too, right. Because. It’s almost like, it’s almost like setting up, setting yourself up for some level of distress. Right. You know, because I, I’m, I think for me too, at watching my dad, a lot of what I took as, okay, this is your responsibility I got from watching him.

Right. And my dad worked an insane amount of hours per week. So there were time, there were periods of, of, of our lives growing up where he would work one job and go immediately from that job to another one. Mm-hmm. [00:36:00] And then, so now the only thing that he could do when he got home was go to eat and go to sleep to do it all over again.

’cause there’s just not enough hours in the day to do what he was doing. Right. So, and. If, if I were to look back, I don’t know, could I pull out instances where I’m like, man, I wish he had done this, that, and the third Maybe, I guess I could, but just like what you said right, there wasn’t that level of expectation, wasn’t there.

Like, okay, a good guy goes out, works. Mm-hmm. And he’s doing a whole lot of that, you know what I mean? So he is gotta be a great guy. Right. You know, so I, I, I, I wonder if dads are feeling now that pressure to be great guy from a, from a external standpoint, but still be great guy from an internal standpoint as well, putting in the same amount of time and not necessarily [00:37:00] knowing where to get that time from.

D Brent Dowlen: That’s a tough, I think big struggles that we’re dealing with in this conversation, right, is Yeah, we still got a lot of guys, like my, my wife’s dad was that guy. He was, he up at 3 30, 4 o’clock in the morning and gone. And he got like eight 30 and heated up some dinner, had a small bowl of ice cream, watched the news for a few minutes and went to bed.

Mm-hmm. And when he wasn’t working that job, right, that was his main, he was doing side jobs on the weekend, clearing land and stuff like that, running heavy equipment, uh mm-hmm. Cutting timber, stuff like that. And that was seven days a week. Like I had never seen somebody work like that, uh, until I moved up here to marry my wife years ago.

And so now, yeah, now we’re asking dads like, okay, go, go work. Which means you’re working a lot of hours these days because the majority of men are still a guy making, uh, social media has skewed this for people. [00:38:00] Mm-hmm. A guy making over $70,000 a year by himself. It’s still a rarity. Like the majority of jobs don’t pay that.

Yep. That’s true. Unless you have a really white collar position like you, you put in the time at school and there’s no shade either direction. But the majority of jobs, most guys make between 16 and $70,000 a year by themselves, max. And usually spouse is working too, right? We’re saying Go work, get all the hours, make all the money, help take care of your family, but I need to go to everything your child does and spend quality time with ’em and have all these successions.

Mm-hmm. And they’re stressing out these days. Right. We’ve got so many men spinning with like emotional, like depression. Depression and anxieties at an all time high for men. I think this is part of the driver.

Oliver Marcelle: I, I agree. I agree. And, and it’s not, and listen, we’re not by any means giving anybody [00:39:00] an out to not be involved, but I do believe that sometimes we place the value.

When we’re evaluating the value of the involvement, we’re using the wrong metric to evaluate it. We’re using a quantity metric as opposed to a quality. And what you talked about intention metric, right? Because if you think about it, if you have, um, even when we’re talking about, you know, anything, any type of relationship, marital relationship, uh, parent parenting relationship, you can fill the time with a bunch of stuff that isn’t quality and still not get the same result as doing two things with intention and with, and with, with [00:40:00] earnest and honest energy.

Doing those two things can sometimes create a greater. Effect and build a bigger bond than you just throwing things. Throwing things and throwing money and showing up. But you stealing it is one thing to show up at the game, but if you’re at the game and you’re, you know, doing emails the whole time, like, you know what I mean?

Like that’s, that I think we’re, we’re sometimes looking at the wrong things in terms of the metric around, around involvement.

D Brent Dowlen: I was trying to explain this. I was, I was at a friend’s house the other night and we were talking to his 17-year-old daughter, and I had to pause him at one point. I was like, okay, what you don’t understand is this.

The way men show you that they care is they work to make it possible for you to do. Mm-hmm. That, that is the reason your dad works 60, 70 hour weeks, is to make sure that y’all have the money so that [00:41:00] you can do all these many things you’re involved in. That’s the way he says, I love you. Mm-hmm. And like this.

17-year-old girl. Like she was almost in tears. Like, wow. ’cause she had never put this idea together that the reason he, her dad works so many hours and he works a lot of hours. Mm. He works from home, so he still gets to interact with the family some mm-hmm. Offices at the house, but he still works 60, 70 hours a week no problem.

Mm. And measure that with juggle, with trying to raise four kids. Right. And he’s trying to help out around the house. And, um, and so she sees it as, he still works a lot. It’s like, yeah, this is, this is him screaming. I love you. You say, I need a new pair of shoes for this new role. I landed in this play. And he goes, Hmm, that’s three hours.

Oliver Marcelle: Mm-hmm.

D Brent Dowlen: [00:42:00] And like, it just never occurred to her. But I think you’re onto something with that intentionality because. Five minutes of intentional time. Mm-hmm. Like intentional, focused time has so much more impact than I tell the story about, uh, when my girls were younger, I was sitting on the couch watching a movie with the girls, and I was scrolling through my mail mm-hmm.

And my daughter reaches over and puts her hand on my hand and pushes the phone down. Mm. She was like seven. I was like, what baby? She’s like, you said you were gonna watch the movie. I said, I am watching the movie, honey. We’ve seen this like five times already. Mm-hmm. Like you said, you’d watch the movie.

Oliver Marcelle: Mm.

D Brent Dowlen: And I, I tried not to cry. I said, baby, do I need to put my phone down? She’s like, yeah. I, I clicked it up. Wow. Put it down. And that was the beginning of those intentional nights with my kids right there. Mm-hmm. I, I got it. It was clear like when I’m [00:43:00] with her, I need to be with her. Yeah. Right. So I think we need to talk about some setting, some boundaries, but before that, because, you know, I don’t like being serious too long.

’cause I look like

Oliver Marcelle: a dick. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right.

Say it again. Best dad joke. Best dad. Um, I, um, so I heard, I heard one the other day. I heard, I ran across a couple the other day, ironically, but one of ’em was, um, I thought this was really funny. Uh, it’s what, what are, what are your strongest, what are your strongest days of the week? Right. And, and the answer is Saturdays and Sundays.

’cause the rest of them are just weekdays.

I like, I was like, that’s, that’s a great dad joke. Rest of ’em are just weekdays. [00:44:00]

D Brent Dowlen: So Abby actually bought a book of dad jokes with her own money. Like her, her Christmas, she bought a book of dad jokes a while back. Mm-hmm. Told her we’re gonna start doing the show. She went and got me her book of dad jokes.

So I had them at hand just in case. Wow.

Oliver Marcelle: Nice.

D Brent Dowlen: We needed ’em for the show. I thought that was really sweet.

Oliver Marcelle: Nice. Good stuff.

D Brent Dowlen: Sorry guys. I, I, I had to give the dad joke in because it wouldn’t be a dad show if we didn’t have a dad joke every so often. Gotta,

Oliver Marcelle: yeah, gotta have one. Gotta have, it’s gotta be a staple.

D Brent Dowlen: So as we talk about balancing, like I said, I don’t think there’s such thing as a work life or a providing family time balance. Mm-hmm. You know, we, we’ve already talked about intentionality some and setting aside specific time. Your schedule. Uh, my daughters like the fact that they can see it on my calendar, like it’s literally on my calendar.

That’s cool. I, I do, I use block scheduling, so I literally have blocks on my calendar. [00:45:00] Mm-hmm. Whatever’s on the calendar. That’s what I’m doing. That’s where I’m at entirely. Mm-hmm. And so my daughters can see it, my calendar. I have one of the smart devices in my office and they can come in and see my schedule and they can see like that time is blocked or if they have something that I’ve agreed to do, that time is blocked on my calendar.

They love that visual. Um, which I highly encourage you guys to do if you’re exploring this possibility of how to do that. But let’s talk about boundaries when it comes to trying to make this balance right, because that is critical to that intentionality. Like I said, I’ve growled at my wife over as like, this is my time out.

They’re mine. Go away. Um, which guys, if you haven’t been very, very long, you better be careful on that one, right? My wife and I have acquired a few years now, so she’s a lot more forgiving when I do things like that. But, you know, how can you [00:46:00] set boundaries around making sure that you have that time? I’ll tell you one of the first ones is spend less time on the phone.

Like,

Oliver Marcelle: yeah, yeah, yeah. That, that’s one thing that, um, I was, man, just, just today, right? Not too long before we got on this recording, I was actually watching a video of someone who was saying that, um, there’s a, there’s a statistic that says that we touch our, our mobile devices more than we touch the people in our lives, whether it’s our spouse, kids, whatever.

And I was like, man, that is a sobering statistic. Like, so Yeah. And as it relates to boundaries, yeah. You have to now decide now what are the things that are, are not going to be a part of that space. Right? And so, and it may be, it may be changing the space altogether, right? So, so great example, I’m sitting [00:47:00] here in my home office right now.

Maybe this is not the best place to be like, Hey, we’re gonna spend some quality time because things are lighting up and stuff is popping on the screen and messages are, you know what I’m saying? Or popping up. Maybe this is not the best place ’cause I know I may get distracted even if I don’t want to be distracted, right?

And so now what, what is the, what is the place that you’re going to be? And, and can you find a place that has the least amount of distractions? Can, can you set the phone aside or put it in another room or turn it off or whatever you need to do. Can you, you know, let the, let the folks around you know that, hey, listen, this, I’m not available at this time.

Or not even answering. Right? Or if you have to put your devices on, uh, do not disturb with a a, um, I think you can do these like pop-up answers that just happen when people, you know, text you and that kind of thing. So yeah, [00:48:00] sending those kinds of boundaries, man, I think is really important. And, and, and starting with knowing the things that are the easiest to get to you and, and putting parameters in place to ensure that they don’t.

You,

D Brent Dowlen: you wanna hear a really gross number? ’cause I actually was looking at this stat just the other day.

Oliver Marcelle: Okay.

D Brent Dowlen: The average person touches their cell phone between 46 on the low end to 72 times an hour.

Oliver Marcelle: I am only, I’m only cringing ’cause I, I, I think I’m guilty of,

D Brent Dowlen: right. The 46 on the low end was like, wait, that’s, that’s the low end number, man. A little, yeah. That is how, that’s how connected we are. And I, I think, right, like my friend has, uh, the do not disturb sitting automatically. ’cause his phone interfaces with his car.

So like the car, he plugs it in and it says, you know, he’s driving right now, whatever. Mm-hmm. [00:49:00] Um, but I know you can, you can have like, at least I have an apple, so I know you can have, uh, timeframes in there that are like on do not disturb or night note. Yep. Mm-hmm. Right. So I think that’s a possibility, uh, having that,

having it on there. So I, I’m a calendar guy. I live by my calendar. Like I said, I block out. If it’s on my calendar, that’s where I am at and what I’m doing. I’m during that timeframe. Nothing else. If it’s not, nope, nope. We’re not doing that. If I’m on date night with my wife, I’m on date night with my wife.

I’m not doing anything else. I think understanding, ’cause we have a real problem with distraction.

Oliver Marcelle: Mm-hmm.

D Brent Dowlen: In our, all of our relationships, not just as a, you know, boyfriend, girlfriend, relationship, husband, wife relationship, parent relationship. In all of our relationships, [00:50:00] we have a real problem with distraction these days.

We have been programmed to have this super short attention span.

Oliver Marcelle: Mm-hmm.

D Brent Dowlen: And it’s disrespectful to the people we care about. Especially like our kids. Yeah. Our kids are already sharing you with your spouse. Our kids are already sharing you with your work. Our kids are already sharing you with everything else you do.

So I think we can claw back some of that time, right? We can set some hard boundaries on what is, I know in blocking time, you, you talked about it, right? This is what is essential. This is what’s critical. Mm-hmm. Right. We, we prioritize those, what the frame phrase you used, uh, non-negotiables.

Oliver Marcelle: Mm-hmm.

D Brent Dowlen: Right?

So I think you can start putting non-negotiables on there and make our time with our kids non, if you got 30 minutes with your kids every day, you would be leaps about and bounds ahead [00:51:00] of 90% dads a lot

Oliver Marcelle: of people. Yeah. Right.

D Brent Dowlen: I I, I saw that the statistic the other day, like the average dad spends less than an hour a week with his kids actually.

Hmm. And that just horrified me, like as somebody who I have my, I. This night of the week we’re doing this. I have, you know, I’m going fishing with Abby on this day, or we’re going hiking on this morning. Right. I, I, the first thing I dump is everything else so I can go. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. And I, I, so I have the set, this is non-negotiable to make sure, but then I, I’m dumping everything else.

It’s like, Hmm, you can do this or you can do this. I’m like, you know, I’m going with the kids. Right. Hang out with my kids. Yeah. The other day I was in the middle of a workout in my backyard and my youngest was outside Abby. Abby was with Sarah. She, uh, my wife drives a bus [00:52:00] for the school system and the girls can go with her, not all the time, but every now and then.

So AB had gone with her and was studying on the front seat of the bus, uh, while my wife was picking up kids. So my youngest was home, so I was like, Hey, come outside. ’cause Henley’s become, she either wants to watch TV or read. And so I was outside, get some fresh air. You can work out with me. She’s like, oh, I’ll, I’ll hang out outside.

She’s out there reading the book, sitting on a swing, and she got pooped on by a bird that really upset her. Mm. First experience with that one. Mm-hmm. Um, but I was like, come on baby. We’re, it’s a beautiful day out here. I was like, you don’t wanna workout? Okay, well, what do you wanna do? You wanna go for a walk or something?

It’s like, yeah, yeah. I went on a walk with mom earlier, but it’s, I wanted to go farther. I said, great. Let’s, so I stopped my workout. Mm-hmm. And first workout I’ve got in weeks, stopped my workout and we went for a mile and a half walk because my daughter said, yes, let’s go do this together. Mm-hmm. [00:53:00] Right. I will offer that every time.

So dads, maybe you start looking at setting boundaries is whatever’s on your phone. Really where you wanna put focus is that television show. I know a lot of families spend a lot of time watching TV at night. Mm-hmm. Go for a walk with your kids, man. 30 minutes of walking with your kids with no distractions is worth his weighting gold.

Yeah. Yeah. Start looking at what you can do. And I know that’s gonna be different for every parent, right? Mm-hmm.

Oliver Marcelle: Yep. Yep. I, I agree with that, man. And, and I, I love, I love you, you, what you’re describing too is something that I feel like dads can do to help get them established, right? Start setting patterns, right?

So to, to beat that statistic about spending such little time, right? Start doing things that become routine, [00:54:00] right? So you may have the movie night, you may have the walk night, you have, have the fishing moment, you have the, you know, ice cream moment, whatever it is, right? So that you now have these things that.

Become established patterns. And so they almost just become a part of the fabric and the framework of how you operate a as, as a unit. And, and that can help.

D Brent Dowlen: Can I, can I ask you in hindsight, ’cause you said, you know, some things you wish you had done as a dad mm-hmm. As a grandfather with grown kids.

Looking back in hindsight, what are your biggest regrets?

Oliver Marcelle: Man? Um, you’re gonna have to do a part two of this show to talk about all of them. Um, 1, 1, 1 main one is, um, I, I don’t, I don’t feel like [00:55:00] I was vocal enough and, and I was, um, I. I forgot. I was listening to something the other day and they were talking about just, you know, like the time spent like talking, right?

Like as, as a relationship coach. Now I’m a huge on communication, right? Mm-hmm. And there’s some things now that I incorporate into the coaching space that I wished, you know, 18 years ago I, you know, that I was actually doing consistently. And that’s one of ’em, just being more vocal. And that could look like, that could simply look like, Hey, I, you know, I see you studying over there, man.

Good, good job. Like, man, keep it up. Keep up the hard work. I see you really putting in some time there, man. I’m, I’m proud of you. Like that kind of stuff, you know, just more of that. Um, I didn’t do a, a lot of that, you know, I, I, and what’s [00:56:00] crazy is I told my wife I thought it, but I don’t know that I always, it came outta my mouth.

That, that’s something I would’ve definitely done more.

D Brent Dowlen: I know something that I, I put a value on guys that I, I recommend you all trying Right. As we try to be, find this balance because you’re, you’re gonna work a lot of hours. I don’t know that we’ve given you great answers other than you have to be more intentional on just forcing the quality of the time you do have and optimizing it.

Uh, I’ve got it. Like, I, I don’t know if you’ve seen this, um, Elon Musk has caught him flack because one of his kids has been with him at like the White House

Oliver Marcelle: mm-hmm.

D Brent Dowlen: And some of the other stuff. Right. And it’s like, I take my kids with me and anywhere I can, ’cause I want them to experience life with me.

How are they gonna learn otherwise? Right? Yeah. So I’m, I’m all for it. It’s like, I think it’s great that Elon Musk has a [00:57:00] kid in the White House. Yes. Please do that. Right. I think we ought to have more. Take your kid to work days.

Oliver Marcelle: I think it’s great exposure to, to be able to do that, to, to be able to have your kids hang out with you when you’re doing certain things.

Um, and that kind of, that kind of goes in line with what I think would be my last piece of advice maybe, is like, it doesn’t have to be anything big man. That’s some, that’s something that I learned as well, um, as I kind of grew up, so to speak. Like, I would always think, man, I gotta like, and I’m using this metaphorically, but like every interaction has to be Disneyland and it really, really doesn’t, like you would be really surprised how phenomenal a time your kid would have by just taking two matchbox [00:58:00] cars and like sliding them across the kitchen for 10 minutes.

And I’m, I’m using that because that’s a real example. Like, I’ve done that now with my grandson. Like he, he’ll bring these d small dinosaurs to me and we’ll just play like Jurassic. Like we’re ju we own Jurassic Park on the couch with two dinosaurs for like 10 minutes, and it’s like Disney World to him, you know what I mean?

And, and I, it really kind of made me think, man, we don’t have to put a whole lot into this, right? It just has to be, it has to be intentional and it has to be genuine.

D Brent Dowlen: I think one of the things, last piece of advice from me guys on this one is I, I, one of the things I do with my kids is I try to make sure that not a single day goes by where I don’t intentionally make physical contact.

That might be a hug, that might [00:59:00] be reaching over and holding my daughter’s hand. While we’re watching something, I intentionally, physically connect with them and tell them I love them at least once a day in close proximity. Like not across the house. Mm-hmm. Close proximity. A lot of times it’s when they first get up in the morning.

’cause my kids are still in that age where they want to cuddle a little bit. When they will up, I will wrap my arms around them and tell them I love them and call them beautiful and amazing and make sure that I’m having that intentional physical contact combined with that verbal affirmation and that affection, uh, with saying, I love you.

Right. Just being intentional. It’s something I learned with my dad. Mm-hmm. I don’t think necessarily framed it that way out loud, but he was very intentional about, you know, putting his hand on my shoulder or. Giving me a hug or, you know, later years when I was too cool giving me the high five or whatever.

Right. [01:00:00] But that is something I’ve tried to do with my kids because that intentional connection, we’re less connected than we’ve ever been. That’s very true. Where we have more options than ever. We’re actually less connected than we ever been. So that intentional physical contact and close proximity is very emotional.

It’s very intimate, and it’s something that I try and do because even if, if nothing else, right, if I have to leave for the next week on something, when I, before I leave, they know I love them and I know, God forbid something happened, they know I love them. Mm-hmm. I walk outta the door, or as their day is getting started, or as their day is ending, I still pray with my kids and sing song, do songs and prayers before they go to bed every single night when it’s 13.

Mm-hmm. So those intentional moments is not long. But it’s intentional and it communicates volumes to your kid. Mm-hmm. [01:01:00]

Oliver Marcelle: That’s it. That’s good stuff, man. That’s good stuff. That, that’s a, uh, that’s a wonderful hat for a dad to wear,

D Brent Dowlen: Oliver. And it’s

Oliver Marcelle: rewarding. It’s rewarding, right? You know what I’m saying? You, you’re building a bond with your kids that is going to last a lifetime.

And who doesn’t want that?

D Brent Dowlen: Oliver, if somebody wants to connect with you. Guys, if you are looking for incredible insights on your romantic relationship with your spouse, your partner, or whatever, you need to check out all of her stuff, like his YouTube channel is awesome. Like I I, I love to watch you guys, I appreciate you.

I, I always feel bad ’cause I don’t get to watch more of your live streams, and I want to, uh, I see ’em pop up. I’m like, oh. But if you, if people want to connect with you, where’s the best place to connect with you?

Oliver Marcelle: Um, best place is social media, in particular YouTube, but it’s, uh, Denali, DEN. So my wife’s name is [01:02:00] Denise.

So the easy way to remember it is the first three letters of her name, first three letters of my name, Oliver. So D-E-N-O-L-I-L-L-C. That’s the handle everywhere. So, um, Facebook, uh, Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, Pinterest. You can catch it with us there, or you can visit the website, which is Denali, D-E-N-O-L i.org.

D Brent Dowlen: And guys, they’re way better at social media than I am. Uh, so when he says catch up with them on social media, like he actually means it. Whereas mine is like, uh, yeah, I’m, I’m bad at social media. Yeah, you guys, social media game is so much better than mine,

Oliver Marcelle: man. Listen, it, it’s, it’s, uh, it’s, uh, it’s, it’s tough to keep up with man.

Un unless you’re, unless you’re, you got somebody on team who’s doing it for you, and that’s their dedicated responsibility. It, it can be a lot.[01:03:00]

D Brent Dowlen: Oliver, most important takeaway you wanna tell Dad is more today,

Oliver Marcelle: man. Just, just keep showing up. Just keep showing up. Um, I was watching this, I was watching this interview with, um. The, um, one of the Wayans brothers, I think it was Marlon Wayans, and, and the interviewer was asking, man, what’s the most impactful thing that your dad did?

And he was like, man, the greatest thing our dad did was come home. He was there. You know, just, just show up, continue to show up, continue to, uh, just make your presence felt and known and be consistent. Just continue to show up.

D Brent Dowlen: Gentlemen, thanks for joining us today on the Dad Hat Shenanigans podcast. A community of dads just navigating life challenges together.

Until next time, laugh, learn and live the dad [01:04:00] life.